PDA

View Full Version : Do not use, can and have KILLED



Woof
23rd April 2013, 09:28 PM
Photo courtesy of www.offroadwa.com

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/Uriah57/TowBall_zps60dad20c.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/Uriah57/media/TowBall_zps60dad20c.jpg.html)

MEGOMONSTER
24th April 2013, 05:35 AM
There will never be enough education on toe ball recoveries.

Maxhead
24th April 2013, 05:56 AM
There will never be enough education on toe ball recoveries.

Very very true mate, Unfortunately there will always be people that think they know better. Whats even worse is manufactures who make a product so called "recovery loop"which looks strong enough to recover from and people make the honest mistake of recovering from it. I'm talking about the loop that is held with 4 bolts. Shame shame as they know the dangers of recovering from that loop point.

taslucas
24th April 2013, 06:31 AM
Very very true mate, Unfortunately there will always be people that think they know better. Whats even worse is manufactures who make a product so called "recovery loop"which looks strong enough to recover from and people make the honest mistake of recovering from it. I'm talking about the loop that is held with 4 bolts. Shame shame as they know the dangers of recovering from that loop point.

It's not that people think they know better. The fact is that they don't know the danger. I think it's great that forums like this and us concerned 4wders are trying to get the word out. I think the vast majority, once told of the danger will learn and it is only a tiny percent of people that will know the danger but snatch off them anyway.
Also, it's all about th force required to recover the vehicle. As said before, if it's bogged to the belly in thick mud fully loaded with a trailer on a hill it's gonna take a hell of a lot more force to pull out and so much so that you may even snatch the whole tow bar assembly out where as if it's simply stuck on a little bit of wet grass then the rear hoop or front factory hook will probably be fine to give a gentle pull.
At the end of the day though it's always best to err on the side of caution and be safe.

At the least, get a hitch receiver there only 40 odd bucks!

FanTapstic!

threedogs
24th April 2013, 06:32 AM
Thats why its important to join a club or attend an off road driver training course.
Bad habits are passed on. Plenty of ppl swear by that loop and they are wrong.
and sadly the message is not getting through, never use a towball for recovery, ever

Diesel-Mate
24th April 2013, 06:37 AM
Can we just take the tow ball out and use the pin to hold a snatch strap in?

Winnie
24th April 2013, 06:50 AM
Can we just take the tow ball out and use the pin to hold a snatch strap in?

Yes mate that is acceptable.

If you're happy and you know it tap a post!

taslucas
24th April 2013, 07:05 AM
As with all recoveries - stop, think/assess, and take your time - small pulls will usually drag someone out if a bit of common sense (apparently not all that common?) and a bit of muscle (dig, track build) prevails. Been driving off road fairly seriously for 28 years as a passenger and/or driver, and am still yet to see a need for massive pulls like the ones you see on YouTube and the like.



Scotty (Bigrig)

I think that point is one that should be highlighted the most.

Also:
The young guy that got killed not far from here a few years ago was smashed through the head by not only the towball but the the towball sleeve as well. In that circumstance it would have made NO DIFFERENCE if they had a shackle instead of the towball. Another problem was highlighted there and it was what a lot of people have already said; Maintain your recovery points. The reason the whole sleeve assembly came out was because someone had welded it in instead of using the pin. Salt water had been trapped inside and after years had corroded the sleeve so much that in some points the wall thickness was down to 2mm and therefore it snapped easily. So its not as simple as "use a shackle". As scotty said above there needs to be common sense, good maintenance of gear and an ability to comprehend the forces involved in the recovery.

Bloodyaussie
24th April 2013, 07:07 AM
We had to use just the pin on a recovery and it was so bent after the recovery if it had been a Chinese pin it would have snapped for sure.... I would never like to rely on one again and prefer just to have the right gear!!!

wolften
24th April 2013, 07:16 AM
Very good points, but a picture is better than a thousand words.
Post a pic of your recovery points please.

Bloodyaussie
24th April 2013, 07:18 AM
Do a search mate this subject has been done over again a million times!!!!!!!!!!

Bloodyaussie
24th April 2013, 07:21 AM
Most of them would be Chinese pins ... the beauty of the 2.5 tonne killing machine we all have a license for is to meet the market demand for pricing, it is assembled using parts (still of high quality though) sourced from the cheapest bidder ... kinda makes you sleep soundly at night hey? lol

Lets not get into this whole "Chinese" manufacturing thing - simple fact is, the debate would be lost as a large percentage of what's used on construction sites, cranes, heavy machinery, our vehicles, etc, etc, etc comes from China and perform just as stated when used appropriately. Quality control is the difference ...

Appreciate you didn't mean it that way, but a bit over the whole Chinese "crap" conversations ... thousands upon thousands of companies there producing and just because the general Australian public are a bunch of cheap skates and have searched high and low on eBay and the like to get the next "bargain", good reputable companies have struggled and some fallen over as a result of our ignorance to quality - don't blame China for 'meeting the demand for crap' and then start complaining like sooks at the result, we need to blame ourselves.


Scotty (Bigrig)

Should have said cheap quality pin..... did not mean to offend you Scotty!!!!! he he!!!

threedogs
24th April 2013, 07:33 AM
Only use graded Zinc plated bolts on your 4x4. Even towbar bolts will require inspection at least once everyyear or so
They will rip off. think of the amount of times the rear of 4x4s sit in bog holes stuck.
Bolts on my last 4x4 as fitted from car yard included two coach bolts
No short cuts on safety,

Bloodyaussie
24th April 2013, 07:46 AM
It funny as I have been on two camps on this but it is as Scotty says.. Honda set up in China years ago with all there tooling and quality control but with cheaper labor and unbelievably they passed on the savings to the customer.. I worked in a motorcycle wreckers and we were quoting prices only to be told by costumers that the new part was cheaper than the 2nd hand price we were quoting??

We would ring Honda to get a price and were gob smacked as Honda were one of the expensive ones and could not believe they passed on the saving......

Then the story of me knocking myself out with a vice I bought made in China that broke in half and gave me a bunch of stitches in my face.......... faarrkk that hurt!!!

taslucas
24th April 2013, 07:59 AM
Then the story of me knocking myself out with a vice I bought made in China that broke in half and gave me a bunch of stitches in my face.......... faarrkk that hurt!!!

Hahahaha! Pics! We need pics!

FanTapstic!

ozzyboy
24th April 2013, 09:33 AM
Soooo. ....... Who actually makes /sells recovery points, that are actually made to snatch from. I see a lot to tow from, but not snatch?

Ozz

GQ TANK
24th April 2013, 11:04 PM
The other aspect is that the NISSAN GQ Patrol owners manaul advise's to use the "recovery loop" for recoverys.

Does this leave nissan open for a law case if someone is hurt using the "recovery loop" - tie down point?

Cuppa
25th April 2013, 07:03 PM
in a snatch situation the blanket should be placed on the strap close to the vehicle being recovered, centre of line on a winch pull.



Why is that? Not questioning the statement, just interested in understanding why.

Cuppa

NP99
25th April 2013, 11:13 PM
We all complained about made in Japan once.......today it's a mark of quality

basil
6th May 2013, 07:09 PM
I have seen blokes use a snatch strap on a towball before. I said to them that you are not supposed to do that; it is not safe. The reply "she will be rite." They got the 4wd out OK but sometimes She's Not Rite. I have seen the same attitude to safety in the workplace. It doesn't matter how much you drum safety into some people they think that bad things only happen to other people. Some people cannot be told; they think they know better. Just look at the way people drive on the fwy in Melb. Every time I go there I see cars speeding up the emergency stopping lane just to save a few minutes.