Inverters

[wildgu6]

Hi guys, looking for an inverter. Can someone fill me in on what's what, what to look for and a good place to buy.

Cheers Pete


TAPPN OUT

[commsman]

All depends what you want to use it for really. There are two types of inverters essentially. Square wave (a manufactured wave) and sine wave (the same as what you get from your home power point and generally filtered).

If you want to run sensitive equipment like laptops and other electronics spend the extra on the sine wave. If you just want to run lights and some other basic electric goods then you only need a square wave really.

The other important part is how much power are you going to draw? Make sure you buy an inverter with a bit of head room in it (above and beyond your general power needs).

If you are going to be running anything like a power tool, fridge or anything else with a motor in it remember these devices have a massive current draw to get them up and running and then use less power once they are running. You'll need to make consideration to get you through that initial start up current draw.

Another key important safety point with any inverter is to look at the electrical isolation of the unit. Some of the cheap and nasty ones can actually show 240 volts across the unit to the body of the car and can electrocute you (remember your playing with household electrics in the bush here). Please play it safe and make sure all your safety is covered don't put electrical leads in the dirt, mud water etc. and if the cord or anything else looks old and worn out, then throw it out.

A good place to buy an inverter from is generally Jaycar Electronics www.jaycar.com.au they have shops and dealers all over the Country and generally have some nerds behind the counter to help you out.

Also remember inverters generally drag a lot of juice out of your battery so have a power 'input' management plan as well. Don't go killing your batteries in the car so the dual battery expires long before it should or even worse that your car won't start again later.

[pearcey]

G`day Pete
I run a 300 watt square wave which runs all my little chargers IE phone ,camera ETC and I have a dedicated small pure sine wave for the computer. TV and my multi media player are 12 volt and only get used very occasionally. Jaycar would be a good place to start once you work out what you want to run Never carried power tools but did convert a batt drill to run 12volt and just made an extension lead so I could plug into any of my sockets but have never used it

[wildgu6]

Cheers guys, prob looking at running lappy and boogie box, maybe a small tv but that's just not camping...lol but gotta keep the miss's happy hahaha. And maybe some small cooking appliances


TAPPN OUT

[pearcey]

Boogie box then that will mean a large ice maker for the drinks a smoke machine and a set of disco lights HAHAHA
Thought about a 7 KVA genny mate.

[threedogs]

Know of a few fellow cub members that run a 1000-2000 inverters for Micro ovens Etc
a 300 watt job should run a 12" TV All sizes usually say what they are capable of running
go grab a Jaycar catalogue

[commsman]

I just thought of a further important safety issue that should be mandatory with all inverters. Get yourself an RCD (Residual Current Device). The best ones to buy for camping are like the ones they use for work sites which are a small extension lead with an inbuilt RCD on the male end of the lead. These will trip the power (at the RCD) if anything (like fingers and forks etc.) try to make an easy path to the ground and electrocute someone.

[Cuppa]

For stuff like the laptop stick with a pure sinewave type. There are heaps on eBay going cheap, & no doubt there will be folks who will say they are ok, BUT from personal experience I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. I have had two eBay cheap PSW inverters go bung on me. One worked fine for a few months & then simply stopped working, the other from new would constantly cut in & out. I believe it needed a cooling fan, which it didn't have, so constantly hit thermal overload, cut out, cooled down & cut back in again. This would occur several times per minute.
In the end I decided to go with a top quality unit made by Victron, having found an Australian supplier who sells them at really good prices, way cheaper than the Victron shop. In the link below it shows the inverters with differing output sockets (which you can get adapter leads for, for only a few dollars on eBay)' BUT they can supply some of the models with a single standard Aussie 3 pin socket too. I bought the 350watt one which they supplied with an Aussie socket. a mate bought the 800w model & had to get an adaptor lead. I have no connection with the company other than being a very satisfied customer. Their service was top notch. Note that these inverters are probably double the weight of the cheap eBay ones, indicative of their quality components. Mine now has 12 months use without problem, & continuously ran appliances well above it's rating without a hiccup. (550w).

Re. Jaycar pure sinewave inverters. The older 'teal' colour ones are very good if you can get one, I have two, a 150w & a 300w. Both have had much use over the past 6 years & are still going strong. I have also had one of the red/silver models they replaced the 'teal' ones with & it didn't last.

For my laptop a 150w is quite ample (& it's quite a heavy power user as laptops go),also the tv, but You would need to check what sort of amps your boogie box draws. For kitchen appliances check their labels, it will say how many watts they use.
If power draw is given in amps, multiply it by 12 (for a 12v system) for the number of watts.

I'm guessing a 350w would be enough to meet your needs

http://www.marineequip.com.au/victron-inverters.html

Cuppa

[NP99]

A 300w is for initial surge and will settle back to 150w.

[Cuppa]

A 300w is for initial surge and will settle back to 150w.

I'd like to clarify that statement. :)
Most are rated at their continuous output, with the surge rating being higher, often roughly double, for short periods, to allow for appliances that have a higher current requirement on startup. So the statement would be correct for a 150w inverter.

However the better quality brands often under rate their output. As I mentioned earlier my 350w Victron has proved capable of providing a continuous output significantly higher than it's rated continuous output. I plugged appliances totaling 550w into it & ran them continuously for almost an hour without hiccup, so definitely more than a surge capability.

Cuppa

[NP99]

Have a look at the Bainbridge products.....google will find!

[MEGOMONSTER]

Hijack.
I am wanting to take my Aldi coffee machine to camp on Queens birthday weekend.
The coffee machine says max. 1455w, so would I need a 2000w inverter.
Do inverters normally connect to the battery or through a cig socket.

[Cuppa]

Hijack.
I am wanting to take my Aldi coffee machine to camp on Queens birthday weekend.
The coffee machine says max. 1455w, so would I need a 2000w inverter.
Do inverters normally connect to the battery or through a cig socket.

Definitely not to the cig lighter socket if using the sort of current you would be drawing with your coffee machine! You need fairly heavy cables connected directly ( via a fuse or circuit breaker) to a healthy battery of sufficient capacity (which depends upon the amount of use the coffee maker will get). It won't be a cheap exercise, & will certainly be more than what you paid for the coffee machine.
Generally only the smallest inverters (180 watts or less) have ciggie plugs on them. 180 watts at 12v = 15amps, which is about the limit for cig lighter sockets.
It is do-able if you really want to.
I'm not a great believer in the cheaper modified square wave inverters or the cheap pure sine wave inverters from ebay. With inverters it is best to buy quality units. A good quality modified square wave inverter is better than a cheap Pure sine, & whilst pure sine is best for sensitive electronics like computers etc, there are many other appliances which don't run as well on them too. Often the only way to find out is to try. Motors can run rough, or hot for example. That's why I prefer to stick with pure sine units. A good quality pure sine inverter of 2000w would be prohibitively expensive just to make a few cups of coffee. Best to see if anyone else has successfully run an Aldi machine on a Modified square wave unit before buying. I'll ask on my motorhome forum & get back to you.
Much cheaper alternatives are stove top expresso/moka pots, or the one I consider best for camping - the Aeropress (http://www.aeropress.com.au). It doesn't make a foamy espresso, but it tastes a heck of a lot better than those 'pod' machines! Also a lot better than the conventional plunger - it is impossible to make a bitter cup of coffee with it, no matter how strong, & being plastic the aeropress is virually unbreakable. I love a decent coffee & find this the best camping solution, along with a small hand powered burr grinder for the beans. No connection to aeropress, just a satisfied customer. I also have a small stovetop moka pot which gives a result a little closer to the espresso I love, but it is harder to pack, more fiddly to use & takes more practice to get a good repeatable result.


Cuppa

[Cuppa]

So far two responses. One saying there are better ways & cheaper ways to to make good coffee than with an Aldi machine when camping & the other as follows:


Hi Cuppa,we run a saeco via venizia coffee machine on a 1500 watt pure sine wave inverter which handles it very well. I don't think on this machine modified sine wave would be a problem,but on machines with electronic control systems pure sine wave is the safest way to go.Our previous machine (breville) pushed the inverter to its limits.So it's important to check the wattage of the machine and make sure it's less than the inverters limit.I feel if some one is going to spend good money on an inverter ,they may as well buy a pure sine wave so they can run other delicate appliances with out worries of causing damage to the electronics.


I,ll keep you updated with any further useful responses.

[Cuppa]

I wrote:
The other part of the equation I omitted to ask about is how much one of these Aldi machines takes out of a battery to make a cup of coffee? I have no idea how long they take , only that they are rated at 1455 watts. I don't know how many cups the owner wants to make at a sitting, & suspect that he'll probably only have a single 105 amp hour ( or similar) auxiliary battery.

I'm guessing that the high current draw over a short period may be ok for one or two cups, but much more than this will stuff his battery, so making coffees for everyone in camp won't be such a good idea?




To which I have received the following response:
Cuppa,I don't think a single battery would be big enough to run the coffee machine with out the risk of the inverter cutting out.The warm up time on my machine is 4-5 minutes,plus the time to heat the milk and process the coffee.I think he would need at least two batteries to complete the process (I am comparing to my own experiences with my batteries).When camping on cloudy days I get out the geny when making coffees to preserve the batteries.


He has confirmed what I thought. I suppose it may work if you were running the motor whilst using the coffee machine? Or a gennie. Bottom line is that when taking large amounts of current out of a battery in a short timeframe it hits them much harder than taking the same amount over a longer timeframe. Something to Peukerts Law I think, but don’t ask me to entry to explain Peukerts, I'm only 'name dropping'! :D


At the very least if it were me, & I felt I had sufficient battery capacity I,d try to borrow an inverter to test it out before buying.
Cuppa

[MEGOMONSTER]

I wrote:
The other part of the equation I omitted to ask about is how much one of these Aldi machines takes out of a battery to make a cup of coffee? I have no idea how long they take , only that they are rated at 1455 watts. I don't know how many cups the owner wants to make at a sitting, & suspect that he'll probably only have a single 105 amp hour ( or similar) auxiliary battery.

I'm guessing that the high current draw over a short period may be ok for one or two cups, but much more than this will stuff his battery, so making coffees for everyone in camp won't be such a good idea?




To which I have received the following response:
Cuppa,I don't think a single battery would be big enough to run the coffee machine with out the risk of the inverter cutting out.The warm up time on my machine is 4-5 minutes,plus the time to heat the milk and process the coffee.I think he would need at least two batteries to complete the process (I am comparing to my own experiences with my batteries).When camping on cloudy days I get out the geny when making coffees to preserve the batteries.


He has confirmed what I thought. I suppose it may work if you were running the motor whilst using the coffee machine? Or a gennie. Bottom line is that when taking large amounts of current out of a battery in a short timeframe it hits them much harder than taking the same amount over a longer timeframe. Something to Peukerts Law I think, but don’t ask me to entry to explain Peukerts, I'm only 'name dropping'! :D


At the very least if it were me, & I felt I had sufficient battery capacity I,d try to borrow an inverter to test it out before buying.
Cuppa

Right now who has an inverter I can borrow.

[Cuppa]

This just got posted.


Dragging close to 150 amps out of a single small battery - even for only a few minutes - is way over what is recommended for any battery if done on a regular basis.

Someone answered that Lithium (LiFeP04) batteries (latest & still developing technology for house/auxillary batteries) could handle it ok, but it would make for an exceptionally expensive cup of coffee.

Cuppa

[MEGOMONSTER]

I guess a generator it is then or no good coffees in the mornings.

[BigRAWesty]

Good old instant wins again..

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[oncedisturbed]

or use the new 3 in 1 sachets, just add hot water and you have the standard NATO coffee, white +2 :)

[Cuppa]

No you can still have good coffee at camp. There are heaps of different coffee makers which don't rely on electricity, many are quite bulky or fragile(glass) though.

As I said before, the Aeropress (http://www.aeropress.com.au) is pretty good (& doesn't cost an arm & a leg). I also have a Porlex hand grinder (pictured here (http://espressounplugged.com)) which stores nicely inside the Aeropress to save space.
Another recommended to me for a 'proper' espresso is the Portapresso (http://www.portaspresso.com). You'd need to be sitting down before you check out it's price though! Certainly not in the same price range as the Aeropress! (10 times the price).

I also have one of these which is pretty good once you've mastered the technique to suit your taste.

[Cuppa]

And yet another view, this one with direct experience of the Aldi machine in a mobile situation.


Hi all, thought I would share my experience with the Aldi machine on an inverter. I installed a 2500w pure sine inverter in our Eyre M/H connected to the truck battery via a couple of 90A relays (one each for pos. and neg. legs to handle the current) which is controlled inside the M/H by a small switch near the remote power point plugged into the inverter. Using this setup I can have two short blacks or Chai Lattes made in less than two minutes from scratch. It draws a lot of current but only for very short periods and is up to temperature in around 20 seconds. The reason for using the truck battery is that it is designed for short very high current draws (as in starting the vehicle), unlike the house batteries which are the opposite style of battery. If I need to make more than 3 or 4 coffees I just start the engine before using the machine. If frothed milk is required we use the Aldi frother which is very good and uses very little power. To be honest, especially if you choose the right pods the coffee is pretty darn close to that we have at home from our $2500 DeLonghi machine, and in the middle of nowhere!

This is in a fiat Ducato based Winnebago with 12v starter battery.

[MEGOMONSTER]

And yet another view, this one with direct experience of the Aldi machine in a mobile situation.


Hi all, thought I would share my experience with the Aldi machine on an inverter. I installed a 2500w pure sine inverter in our Eyre M/H connected to the truck battery via a couple of 90A relays (one each for pos. and neg. legs to handle the current) which is controlled inside the M/H by a small switch near the remote power point plugged into the inverter. Using this setup I can have two short blacks or Chai Lattes made in less than two minutes from scratch. It draws a lot of current but only for very short periods and is up to temperature in around 20 seconds. The reason for using the truck battery is that it is designed for short very high current draws (as in starting the vehicle), unlike the house batteries which are the opposite style of battery. If I need to make more than 3 or 4 coffees I just start the engine before using the machine. If frothed milk is required we use the Aldi frother which is very good and uses very little power. To be honest, especially if you choose the right pods the coffee is pretty darn close to that we have at home from our $2500 DeLonghi machine, and in the middle of nowhere!

This is in a fiat Ducato based Winnebago with 12v starter battery.

So with your experience do you think I could do it. I am pretty sure my dual battery is not a deep cycle battery but a high performance cranking battery.
(Will check after work to be clear).

If car is running at the same time does this help with the current.

It's just I am still liking the idea of good no fuss coffee in the mornings.

I am at the moment trying sms'ing a mate to borrow a geni but I'm pretty sure he won't let me crake it, he is very anal about people borrowing shit. Always ringing next day for it back.
But it's right for him to borrow shit off others and not return for 3 months but I won't bring that up.

[Cuppa]

So with your experience do you think I could do it.

Possibly, but to be honest I wouldn't choose too
My choice would be (is) the Aeropress at $45. It gives a good result, just not one with a crema. If you prefer latte an Aldi milk frother doesn't draw much power & would run off a small (& much cheaper inverter which you could plug into a cig lighter socket. This together with an aeropress would keep you happy I reckon.
By the time you have bought a decent inverter, plus the heavy cabling & circuit breaker & relay you'll have probably spent as much as a small gennie would cost you. I'm not a lover of gennies for camping, but they are a lot more versatile than a big inverter connected to your batteries & don't run the risk of sending your batteries to an early grave.

Cuppa

[MEGOMONSTER]

Cheers Cuppa, really appreciate your help.
Will have to think of something else now.

[Cuppa]

Btw - your mate's gennie, if you can get it will need to be at least a 2kva one. If you were headed down Gippsland way I was going to offer the lend of my Honda Eu10i (1 kva) but then realised it wouldn't be big enough. Whole different ball game once you go off grid eh?

Cuppa

[MEGOMONSTER]

Btw - your mate's gennie, if you can get it will need to be at least a 2kva one. If you were headed down Gippsland way I was going to offer the lend of my Honda Eu10i (1 kva) but then realised it wouldn't be big enough. Whole different ball game once you go off grid eh?

Cuppa

Thanks for the offer anyway, I've survived the last 20 years without one, I'm sure I'll survive 20 more.
It's only the boys going anyway, no woman or children.
Just wanted to surprise then with a small luxury.

[Blacklotusdog]

X2 on the aeropress it's cheap, durable and makes a great brew. Also it's super easy to clean.

[MEGOMONSTER]

Good news, I have a 2kva Honda generator to take camping this queens birthday weekend.
Freshly brewed coffee in the mornings now at camp.

[Cuppa]

:animierte-smilies-t:animierte-smilies-t:toot::animierte-smilies-t:animierte-smilies-t

[Patrol-Guy]

Hi all, as my genpower inverter has just passed away I am in the market for a new one. Think I will invest in a better brand this time.

So can anyone advice on what is good and what is not so good.

Thanks in advance.

[paulyg]

I have the Honda EU20I, not the cheapest but very happy with it, plus I have very good support at any Honda dealer in the country.

[Cuppa]

Like Paulyg I reckon it’s hard to beat the little Honda gennies for quietness & reliability. We have the smaller EU10i which gets very little use (we no longer travel with it), so it can go 12 months at a time between uses but never fails to start on first or second pull ...........& that can be with fuel which has sat in the tank since the last use!

If you do get a Honda keep a look out for promotional deals which come up regularly. Ours came with additional warranty (5 years total), a cover, a set of bbq implements & a couple of other things I’ve forgotten. The warranty whilst unlikely it will be needed is worth having because they can be expensive little buggers to repair.

[the evil twin]

I like the Hondas as well but going by his post I think he is after an Inverter not a Genny

Top of the wozza...
Morningstar (yank) are very hard to go past
Latronics (aussie) are supposedly a good piece of kit (never used one in the field tho)
Victron if they make one suitable

Best of the rest...
Meanwell (Tiawanese) are my 'go to' for low power Inverters and AC/DC converters

Worth a punt...
Powertech (Jaycar) came fitted in my Van and seem OK, suprisingly so actually

[Cuppa]

I like the Hondas as well but going by his post I think he is after an Inverter not a Genny




:oops:
I had a good run with a couple of the older (teal coloured) Powertech inverters which were excellent bit’s of gear (still working perfectly in our bus after 12 years) but found the ones they replaced them with to be only a little better than ebay cheapies. The ebay cheapie I had needed a fan, (which it didn’t have & shouldn’t have needed at just 150w) & constantly cut in & out making it unusable. The red/silver Powertech I had died in less than 12 months. Best I’ve had are two Victron Phoenix’s (180w & currently a 350w). They are significantly heavier than any others I’ve had & seem to be well over spec’d. I’ve run my 350w at 500w for over an hour testing it when I first got it! Best of all they are now priced very competitively. Based upon quality & price I’d suggest that they are a ‘best buy’ if looking for a genuine pure sine inverter (The only type I’d buy).

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Victron-Phoenix-Inverter-Pure-Sine-Wave-12V-350VA-300W-Great-For-Camping-/391352722179?hash=item5b1e70a303:g:sLAAAOSwDk5UGmd n


http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Victron-Phoenix-Inverter-Pure-Sine-Wave-12V-180VA-175W-Car-Boat-Caravan-4WD-/262001872919?hash=item3d00875017:g:HdQAAOxysE5Sa29 t

I didn’t know that Morningstar made inverters but if they are as good as their solar regulators I would be just as happy to have one as the Victron.

[the evil twin]

Hiya Cuppa,
If i was after quality I reckon I would go Victron at those prices.

[paulyg]

i have an 1800 watt Projector inverter, works well and seems to be well made.

[Patrol-Guy]

i went shopping and found a Projector 1000 for $770. Asked for deal and was rejected. Checked flea-bay and picked the same one up for $465.

I'm happy. Thanks for all the responses above.

[AGman]

Just a bit of info for future if anyone is interested; Selectronics LD600 come up on ebay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Selectronic-LD600-12-600W-AC-DC-Sine-Wave-Inverter-2-Outlet-Camping-Caravan-3-/272075954897?hash=item3f58fd9ad1:g:vhcAAOSwNphWbgA 4) second hand every now and then and they are a very robust inverter. The Selectronic branded units were totally made in Melbourne (even the transformer was wound here) and the manufacturing and servicing of these older units has been taken over by SI Clean Energy (https://www.sicleanenergy.com.au/) in Coffs Harbour.

Rated at 600W continuous but they do go a lot higher than their rated power - 800W for half an hour and 1500W surge. They are a great deal for 3 or 400 dollars when they come up second hand every now and then. They are an old design and a bit heavy but they are tough!

Cheers

[AlissaChuran]

Hi, I prefer Sine Wave inverters because of their normal voice and due to the high safety of appliances. Although, Sine Wave inverters are expensive but offer better features as compared to Square Wave ones. Choices are yours.

[GQtdauto]

Ones I've tried so far Repco died prematurely, one bought from Aussie Battery and Solar which was their brand and 3000watt was the best inverter I've ever had , had a remote switch but you could leave it on because it used next to nothing on standby .
Had it setup in the front hood of the van via a suicide lead and was so handy until I forgot one too many times to unplug it before hooking up the main caravan power cord and blew it up , can't get the same inverter anymore and the one I have at the moment also a 3000watt doesn't get used because of the massive power drain just on standby .

[Ghosts]

I recently bought a Victron 12V 500W Pure sine Wave Pheonix Inverter recently, going to be installed soon.