I finally did it - stressful day!

[Cuppa]

Before starting my camper conversion I should have weighed the bare shell & then weighed everything before deciding to fit. Problem is everything seems essential for longer term living & travelling out of the vehicle.

The DX 4.2 cab chassis has a GVM of 3400kg, & from the start folks have told me I'd be struggling with weight.

In particular ThreeDogs will be reading this with a knowing smirk on his face, he's been hassling me to get the camper weighed for a while now, convinced that it would be overweight. I undertook to 'fess up when I got it weighed, but until that point have endured many sleepless nights followed by head in the sand days.

Well today was the day my camper went over the scales. No individual axle weights, just a total. (At the local scrap merchants weighbridge for free). It went on with both fuel tanks full, water tank full, & everything we would want to carry for long term travel, excepting a full supply of food. A reasonable amount of food was on board, but I expect we could put in a further 50kgs worth if planning an extended bush stay at a location where additional water was available. The weight did not include myself or MrsTea, who between us would contribute a further 130kg.

I had hoped the weight would be close to the 3400kg GVM, with a few bits & pieces we could change or remove if we were a bit over, but really I had no idea despite having tried to add it all up in my head in the early hours of the mornings day after day as it nagged away at me.

So what was the weight? .............................. ummmm............... 3700kg dead on! Add 180kgs for extra food & the two of us which brings it up to 3880kg, 480kgs over the GVM! Gulp.

It is clear that I can't remove that amount of weight without virtually going back to a bare shell. I really don't know how Telstra get away with it, they are known to load up their vehicles. I wonder if they, as a large corporation just wear the risk, something individuals with more limited means are in no position to do. To get under the GVM would mean a couple of swags in the back & that'd be about it!

As you might imagine, after I had sat & pondered the lack of options open to me, I was in a pretty dark place ................ until a little light crept in whilst at the local suspension/spring works emporium.

In the past I read up on the net about GVM upgrades & learned that there was only one way to go about this, Lovells Springs have a GVM upgrade kit developed in conjunction with the state road traffic authorities but it is only available on brand new vehicles........... BUT........ that has now changed & the kits are available for retrofitting to some Toyota's & Patrols. Problem is the kit is only available for 3 litre Patrols, not the 4.2 that I have.

HOWEVER, there is a way around this which involves an amenable engineer to check the fitting of the 3 litre Patrol kit & sign off on it. This results in an increase of the GVM to 3900kg.

Not a cheap option. Cost of the engineer is $1200 on top of the cost of the kit. All up the cost will be somewhere between $5500 & $6000 which whilst hurting the hip pocket, still hurts less than ripping out much of the work I've done & towing a camper trailer, resulting in 'split living arrangements'.

Go on TD, tell me "I told ya so", you know you want to.

Cuppa

[krbrooking]

Unlucky Cuppa sorry to hear that. Not sure of the practicality or expense but have you looked into fitting a third floating axle or is that the suspension upgrade you are talking about, not even sure if it would increase your GVM but common sense says to me it would.

[megatexture]

and i imagin the upgrade includes brakes also ? surely its not just a suspension thing?

[DX grunt]

My philosophy is KIS (note: purposely left out the last S, because we are all on the same team here. Right?)

Wow. I know there's not a lot of room for leeway.

All the best, Cuppa. Take care, bro.

Rossco

[Cuppa]

Not really unlucky, just poor planning.
No I haven't looked a 3rd axle, but must admit I don't like the idea of 6 wheels. I would think that this might also be a lot more expensive.
The suspension upgrade seems to me to be a 'red tape' solution. As far as I can tell it involves new springs & shocks all round, probably little different to what I already have fitted. The difference is that Lovells have been through the process to make their upgrade acceptable to the RTA's already, which is the significant factor in being able to get the engineer to accept it. Because of the coal mines, power stations & associated industry locally in the Latrobe Valley the local engineer is already familiar with these upgrades, & given that engineers in general have been described to me as a 'finicky breed' such familiarity is a definite help.
It would also leave me with a set of spare OME shocks, & someone may wish to purchase my OME HD springs.

[Cuppa]

and i imagin the upgrade includes brakes also ? surely its not just a suspension thing?

Tyres have to meet the load ratings (mine do), but apparently the brakes remain unchanged.

[DX grunt]

My philosophy is KIS (note: purposely left out the last S, because we are all on the same team here. Right?)

Wow. I know there's not a lot of room for leeway.

All the best, Cuppa. Take care, bro.

Rossco

Bump. We posted at the same time.

[Maxhead]

Oh crap Cuppa!!.
I know how much thought and calculations you have put into this project but knowing your abilities I am sure you will be able to make it legal and get on your way.

I know I struggled to keep my vehicle and van under GVM and GTM before our trip. I had to compromise alot and leave lots of gear behind, in hindsight we did not really need them anyway but we did have a lot more to play with having a caravan.

All I can say is good luck mate, I know you will resolve this issue with minimal expense (hopefully)

Good luck mate

[Cuppa]

My philosophy is KIS (note: purposely left out the last S, because we are all on the same team here. Right?)

Wow. I know there's not a lot of room for leeway.

All the best, Cuppa. Take care, bro.
Rossco

It's alright Rossco mate, you can call me 'S'.
Sure ain't a lot of leeway. Have you weighed yours when fully kitted out ready for a trip?

Cuppa

[DX grunt]

Share your pain, bro.

The caravan we wanted to retire in is too heavy for my ute. Damn.

[DX grunt]

Have you weighed yours when fully kitted out ready for a trip?

Cuppa

No. Too scared too. lol.

[Cuppa]

All I can say is good luck mate, I know you will resolve this issue with minimal expense (hopefully)


I'm hopeful too, but the minimal expense might be a little over optimistic!

[BigRAWesty]

Don't stress mate. I'd say nearly 99.99999% of all 4x4's are over weight... And don't get started on roof racks... Yet no one really seams to care.
But half a ton is a little exessive, I'd try cut it to 200-300 kg and not stress...

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[Cuppa]

Don't stress mate. I'd say nearly 99.99999% of all 4x4's are over weight... And don't get started on roof racks... Yet no one really seams to care.
But half a ton is a little exessive, I'd try cut it to 200-300 kg and not stress...

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

Yeah I know what you are saying, but I'm a stresshead! It's the fact that it makes the insurance null & void which is the main concern. It would be bad enough to be held responsible for an accident, but with no insurance it could mean losing everything. It's all about balancing risk I guess, maybe less for the odd camping weekend away than for full time on the road (our eventual aim).

Cutting 200-300kgs would change the whole concept. Believe me I have thought long & hard at trying to cut down, but whatever I do I'd still be over. 5kg or 500kg over is all the same as far as the insurance goes.

We will do what we can to cut weight anyway, but it's tinkering at the edges.

Cuppa

[BigRAWesty]

Get a treadmill....:p

I know its probably to late but I think I saw you fitted 3 batteries? Maybe loose one?
Lets see a list of everything, and we can brain storm different ideas to try and trim some fat...

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[Maxhead]

Get a treadmill....:p

I know its probably to late but I think I saw you fitted 3 batteries? Maybe loose one?
Lets see a list of everything, and we can brain storm different ideas to try and trim some fat...

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

As much as I would want to say the same, Cupper has set it up the way his needs it and don't think he wants to trim bits and piece off it as it would defeat his purpose. As said before he has put a lot of effort and thought into what he needs for his travels.; And of course he knows his stuff from experience.

Looks like the only option ATM is increasing the GVM....any ideas?

[NissanGQ4.2]

Cutting 200-300kgs would change the whole concept. Believe me I have thought long & hard at trying to cut down, but whatever I do I'd still be over. 5kg or 500kg over is all the same as far as the insurance goes.

We will do what we can to cut weight anyway, but it's tinkering at the edges.

Cuppa

Cuppa, was the scrap merchants weighbridge a registered public weighbridge or a private weighbridge???

If its a private weighbridge the first thing I would do is reweigh it at a registered public weighbridge.

I would never trust a private weighbridge, public weighbridges need to be serviced and recalibrated every 6 months by an approved certifier if I remember correctly where private weighbridges don't.

Cutting 200 to 300kg's could easy be achieved if there weighbridge is out to buggery

Just an idea for u to ponder

[Cuppa]

Nisshead's right. I just typed out a whole justification, but his post said it better in a couple of lines.

Toddie you may be right, it was a private weighbridge, although it would not be in their interests to be weighing (& paying for) loads of scrap higher than what they are. It would be costing them too much. Nevertheless Perhaps I will go to a public weighbridge.

[NissanGQ4.2]

Nisshead's right. I just typed out a whole justification, but his post said it better in a couple of lines.

Toddie you may be right, it was a private weighbridge, although it would not be in their interests to be weighing (& paying for) loads of scrap higher than what they are. It would be costing them too much. Nevertheless Perhaps I will go to a public weighbridge.

I know what you mean, but they are not weighing (& paying for) loads of scrap higher than what they are, all trucks either get a tare weight load up steel and then get a gross weight to give the Net weight of scrap or Gross first empty tare then get the net. So the bridge could be out by 500 kilo's but the end net results will always be the same

Hope that made sense....

I was a public weighbridge operator for 10 years and have seen them go out to buggery 2.

[BigRAWesty]

As much as I would want to say the same, Cupper has set it up the way his needs it and don't think he wants to trim bits and piece off it as it would defeat his purpose. As said before he has put a lot of effort and thought into what he needs for his travels.; And of course he knows his stuff from experience.

Looks like the only option ATM is increasing the GVM....any ideas?

I'm not saying you need to loose any creature comforts, but you can subsidise.
Ie, alloy bar and cradle instead of steel bar.
Carrying a tube instead of a second tyre..
Little things..

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[Cuppa]

Hope that made sense....



Sort of ....... I think?? Regardless, with your experience I'm prepare to accept what you say, & will get reweighed at a public weighbridge.

[Maxhead]

I'm not saying you need to loose any creature comforts, but you can subsidise.
Ie, alloy bar and cradle instead of steel bar.
Carrying a tube instead of a second tyre..
Little things..

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

Yeah mate, agreed but not necessarily practical.

One roo/cow strike and you possibly have major damage with alloy bar,....holiday on hold
great idea with tyres

I think you will find Cuppa(as per his build thread) has considered all options but unfortunately it has still come over GVM..

At this stage we need ideas of trying to get him legal rather then reduce his weight IMO... I could be wrong tho but having encountered a lengthly trip I know how important it is to carry the necessary gear to last indefinatly .


EDIT:sorry Cuppa your call

[NissanGQ4.2]

Sort of ....... I think?? Regardless, with your experience I'm prepare to accept what you say, & will get reweighed at a public weighbridge.

OK lets just say the bridge is out by 100kg

You weight your Trol and a box trailer full of steel( this is what the Gross weight is ) and it weighs 4 tonne's

You empty the box trailer of steel and drive back onto the weighbridge ( this is called the Tare weight ) and it weighs 3 tonne

So your Nett weight of steel is 1 tonne, the scrappie pays you for 1 tonne if steel

And regardless that the bridge is out by 100 kilo's your Nett weight will still be 1 tonne because you grossed and tared on the same bridge.

[Maxhead]

I've got nothing constructive to say so I'll just add this option:

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10448&d=1322396206


Bastard!!!..........

[macca]

That 6x6 is nice...


Our lux was 445kg over when we headed west a couple of years ago, it survived but probably not "legal"

I'm loading mine to wiegh and see if air bags are needed in the rear, it's hard to leave stuff out thats for sure, from seeing yours you have a bit more than me.
I'm trying to rough it I suppose, but not so easy. You seem to be set up to stay in one place for a while.

A mate put a red dot on everything in his car when it was used the dot was removed. When they got home if it had a dot it was taken out and put in the shed.
Some stuff is used in an emergency so that has to stay of course.

Good luck mate

[Sir Roofy]

You dont need all that water till your heading to the never never
50/60 lts will do till your ready to head out
drop off one battery and fine tune the solar system,wich in my opion
only is a bit of an over kill for a ute /pod,and the hot water,could just be a glin
or instant gas for your needs,dont get me wrong mate love the set up but
got to trim some wieght and thats the way i see it

cheers

[threedogs]

Not sure how remote you intend going?? Unless your blazing new tracks I think its overkill. I 've been doing remote travel and camping for more years than I care to remember.
Living in the Territory has helped to, being too heavy defeats the purpose, more fuel useage, heaps more strain on your ute especially chassis which is the weak link of utes and rear shock towers.
If you intend on getting fuel every day you'll have water every day. One 80 watt panel and a triple battery set up would be heaps IMO. one battery for start only. With leds now power consumption is minimal.
see artical of other remote tourers I'm sure Ron Moons rig is not as heavy and thats an extended dual cab. If you like I can find out what that weighs. M2cW. I think remote and outback travel get mixed up.

[Cuppa]

I'm loading mine to wiegh and see if air bags are need in the rear,
I'm trying to rough it I suppose, but no so easy.
A mate put a red dot on everything in his car when it was used the dot was removed. When they got home if it had a dot it was taken out and put in the shed.



Hi Macca,
Re air bags - I spoke to the guy at the Springworks about airbags. He has plenty of experience with Patrols used in the local coal mining, power generation & associated maintenance industries. He reckoned that air bags were bad news on overweight Patrols, having had to deal with a number with cracked chassis'.

Re. trying to rough it not being easy - It definitely gets harder as you get older! And it's very different what the old body can manage for a week or two compared a few months plus. I reckon a lot of the young guns don't yet understand that ......... but they will!

Re. red dots. Am well versed in this method. I would be VERY surprised if we went away for more than a few months in the Patrol if ANYTHING had a red dot on it when we returned. The only possibility being a few tools/spares ..... and you could virtually guarantee we'd need them next time out if we didn't take them.

Cuppa

[Cuppa]

TD, Our aim is to be able to be completely self sufficient for a minimum of two weeks before needing fuel, water or food restocking. All the suggestions being made are understandable, & would make sense for many who travel onward regularly. It really depends upon what the goal is. I dream of finding remote paradises & staying put for as long as possible. After 18 months on the road around Australia being way to quick we want to slow down when we go next time. I appreciate many have to fit their adventure into a few weeks, but that is not for us. I'd rather stay home than rush. Our travelling is not a holiday, but more a change in lifestyle, but there is a price to be paid. Horses for courses mate.

[TimE]

What are the differences in weight and strength between an aluminum and steel tray?

If an ally tray could cope with the load on its back then I'd bet there are a few kgs to be saved there.

[Cuppa]

What are the differences in weight and strength between an aluminum and steel tray?

If an ally tray could cope with the load on its back then I'd bet there are a few kgs to be saved there.

Hi TimE,
No tray, just the all aluminium canopy bolted directly on to the chassis.

Cuppa

[macca]

Pre our long winter trip this year I put mine over the scales today, put 80kg of cement instead of food and beer type drinks plus another engel has to go in as well, but all liquids full, all camping gear in and me in the drivers seat it came to 1540KG front (load capacity 1530) and 2420KG rear ( load capacity 2240) total 3960KG ( total load capacity 3770) over loaded by 190KG, pretty happy with that.
The back sits 35mm lower and the front 15mm lower from wher I started on Saturday, ther was a fiar bit of wieght allready there as its attached all the time.
Some spares have to be added so does the passenger but all up it will be OK without doing any more spring work.

Cuppa I got those weights from the placard in the glove box, you are starting to look a lot better if you use those figures.

Those figures are for the stock suspension, mine is not engineered for a GVM Upgrade, but with the better King springs and Tough Dog Big bore shocks fitted I am not concerened about the actual GVM being over.

[Cuppa]

Macca,
Probably explains why my 2" lift sat a fair bit lower than your 2" lift as you were half empty at the time.
I guess the glovebox figures are what Nissan reckons are the safe, rather than legal weights?
Bloke at the spring works reckoned it was easy enough to make the vehicle capable of carrying extra weight safely, regardless of GVM upgrade or not.

Cuppa

[macca]

Forgot to add the GVM on the Australian compliance plate riveted to the fire wall does say 3400KG as you have been refering to.
My ute was basically "empty" compared to yours at Xmas so the rear clearances would have looked different, I remember measuring the front and they were very similar just the back was lower on yours but is was packed with your camping gear.

[macca]

Eptied the pod of all the stuff not bolted in and went over the scales again, with the fuel tanks full it was bang on 3400kg.

Well that has just knackered the trip I can go but nothing else.

[threedogs]

Now it becomes abit of a safety issue, eg brakes need to pull you up.
hope you dont need to go to Mine spec rear coils, I take it both Macca and Cuppa are coil rear.
For load carrying you cant beat leaf, but sacrifice comfort big time, so how to solve this problem?
What does an empty pod weigh, 200kg?? I dont know. Straight off theres 200kg and you added nothing
and being conservitive at 200kg. Add a decent tool box some water theres another 100kg, still havn't left yet.
personally cant see how you can do it without a GVM up grade.

DX 3lt ute can carry 1300kg what about the DX 4.2

Old wals weighs in at 5100kg so dont feel bad.
I thought it would be much heavier.

Oh yeah I told you so
Now we need to take the Cupmobile to "JENNYS"

[macca]

"personally cant see how you can do it without a GVM up grade."

Prsonally cant see me doing it with an Upgrade, just going to load it up and go enjoy myself.

Both our utes are leaf rear

[threedogs]

Bump, Re the red dot
Great idea that everything I pack I make sure has dual uses if not three.
eg a plastic tub for storage can also be used as a basin to wash dishes.
As Kallen said write up whats on it now , and together we may be able to get you down to legal.
Plus a rough idea of where you intend going, some here may have done these trips before.
lets go,,,,,,,,,,,,fingers poised waiting

Haven't you just done a dummy run ???plus you dont want to spend 2hrs every day packing up to get going

[Cuppa]

Eptied the pod of all the stuff not bolted in and went over the scales again, with the fuel tanks full it was bang on 3400kg.



Strewth Macca, that surprises me. I looked at yours & thought to myself what a top job you had done in terms of keeping the weight down. It just *looked* lightweight. Your pod is smaller, your rooftop tent is smaller, your 'kitchen' is pretty lightweight. I take it your water tank was empty when you weighed it again? You must have heavy air inside your Pod!
It doesn't help either of us, but it kinda makes me feel better knowing that as a 'first timer' I'm not *that* much heavier than your good self. :)

TD, re 'safety issue'. Don't think this is really an issue. The legal GVM upgrade is suspension 'upgrade' (actually probably very little difference to what Macca or I already have other than using products from an 'approved' company). No mention of brakes needing to be upgraded (I asked & was told no), but tyres do have to have a minimum load & speed rating (mine are ok). The bloke at the Springworks was quite confident that it was 'easy' to set up the patrols to safely carry more weight, harder though to get the GVM upgraded. It is this process using the lovells kit & a local engineer familiar with these kits on the 3 litre models that hopefully makes the upgrade possible. The 5 year warranty, & the fact that I'll have a spare set of OME shocks helps a bit. Might even be able to sell the OME front coils & rear leaves.


Cuppa

[threedogs]

At least its not a 200s yota , you fart in them and you exceed GVM lol

Still a lot of weight to pull up in a hurry.
How did Telstra get around it????

@ Macca think I'd do the same, just go eh

[gaddy]

Just a thought about this thread , your insurance company can read this and if all is not as it should be , if you are in a accident they will have it in black and white , and no I have nothing to do with insurance, it was just a observation

Cheers
Gaddy

[threedogs]

Thats fine We're trying to get it legal if you read all posts. Cuppa not happy its over weight but culling as we type,[I hope]
leave out Gloria Oh No !!!!!!

[mudski]

i've got nothing constructive to say so i'll just add this option:

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10448&d=1322396206
fwoarrr!!!!!

[Cuppa]

Just a thought about this thread , your insurance company can read this and if all is not as it should be , if you are in a accident they will have it in black and white , and no I have nothing to do with insurance, it was just a observation

Cheers
Gaddy

You make a good point Gaddy. I had considered this before 'fessing up' but decided to post anyway as it was/is my intent to get the GVM upgrade & be 'legal'.
However if after the thread has run it's course anyone wishes to request that the thread be deleted I would have no problem with that being done.

Cuppa

[macca]

All the safety stuff is in the fore front of my thoughts, brakes will be different, I know that. Just have to drive like I had the un-braked loaded to the max box trailer on behind or even to max towing limit with a braked trailer.
With all the load the rear springs still had enough bend in my opinion. All the gear under there is heavy duty including the big mofo diff that these leafys are burdened with.
That is the reason I bought a leafy, its a bugger off road on a weekend trip but this up coming trip to the ABH/CSR was the motivation.
GVM is not limited to just the shocks & springs, bearings and other components have to take a lot more with the increase. So we are taking spares.
Be interested to know GVM and tyre placard axle loads for a coil/coil ute.
I still had a bit in the ute Cuppa, the fuel tanks were full and the basket was on the cab roof as well as a hilift and RTT. Inside the bolted in bits were still there 2 aux batts, inverter, compressor, fridge & drop slide, stove, shelves, empty water tanks but all the pumps and bits & bobs were still there, bull bar etc etc. And my fat ass of course.
There is not really anything that can be taken out for a trip like the ABH & CSR, I can assure you I have thought about it, but over 500kg there is no way to reduce the wiegt any where near that much.
Some of my stuff is being pawned off to other vehicles when we all meet up, to share the wieght but not more that 50 - 100kg. Then the old man jumps in !!!!
So me like every other (surely?) outback traveller will be overloaded when we head out on the isolated part of the trip, seen blokes in utes with just a swag, a slab of Bundy and a fridge but I'm too old for that.
Be suprised if a GVM upgrade would increase the limit enough for what we need, can't afford it anyway.
As for insurance I have been totally honest with my insurer from the beginning, but that can all turn to custard if the worst were to happen.
I can not stay home because of "what if" or "thats not right" so as I said before just going to load it up and go enjoy myself.
Just going to have to suck it and see.

[threedogs]

DX leaf = 1160kg
DX wide wheel = 1300kg
DX coil = 1270kg
ST coil 1120kg

ALL 3ltr cab chassis

[macca]

DX leaf = 1160kg
DX wide wheel = 1300kg
DX coil = 1270kg
ST coil 1120kg

ALL 3ltr cab chassis

TD I'm confused
My ute with coil / leaf
DX 4.2TDi Wide wheel
Tyre placard says axle capacities
Front 1530kg Rear 2240kg
Firewall compliance plate
GVM 3400kg

[macca]

Cuppa sorry about the :hijacked:

[threedogs]

@ macca /cuppa all 4 variants weigh 2120kg {3ltr}
by my thinking the DX leaf has a 2280 GVM

2120 + 1160 = 2280

[Old Wal]

Been following this thread with a lot of interest - I have canopy on my ute containing my Genset & "tools of trade " which I regularly remove using a set of detachable lifting legs .Takes about 10 minutes. Have to be mindful of GVM. Currently building a slide on camper for my ute - the theory being that I can take my work canopy off & put the camper on. Struggling to keep its weight down. I spoke to an engineer near Wodonga regarding Lovell's GVM upgrade kit & he indicated that he would'nt be prepared to sign off on it , his words being " they are exploiting a loop hole regarding theoretical maximum axle loadings " . Another engineer in Melbourne said that he would consider signing off on the upgrade. Go figure. Incidently three dogs my GCM ( not GVM ) with canopy & trailer is around 5100Kg. Don't remember which ( GVM ? or GCM ? ) that I put in my original post. Sorry for the confusion.

[macca]

@ macca /cuppa all 4 variants weigh 2120kg {3ltr}
by my thinking the DX leaf has a 2280 GVM
2120 + 1160 = 2280

You mean Tare not GVM?
As posted before my compliance plate says 3400kg so I have no idea what you "DX leaf has a 2280 GVM" represents unless its Tare, that gives a payload of 1120KG (2280 + 1120 = 3400)

TARE kerb mass (unladen)
GVM gross vehicle mass (laden)
GCM gross combination mass (with trailer)

You did say 3ltr, ours are 4.2ltrs

[macca]

Found a spec sheet for the 2005 4.2 TDi cab chassis

http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_55390/title_Nissan-Releases-Its-Revised-Patrol-CabChassis-Range-With-an-Intercooled-42-Diesel-Engine/newsarticle.html


The bit we have been talking about;
Specifications
----------------------------------------------TD42T Coil DX-------TD42T Leaf DX--------TD42T Coil ST
Engine
4.2 litre intercooled turbo diesel,
4 cycle, 6 cylinder OHV ----------------------------S-----------------------S -----------------------S
Rated Towing Capacity
Trailer with/without brakes (kg) ---------------2500/750--------------------2500/750------------2500/750

Weights
Tare (without tray) (kg) -------------------------2015----------------------2128------------------2028
GVM (kg) ------------------------------------------3150----------------------3400------------------3150
Front axle capacity (kg) -------------------------1530----------------------1530------------------1530
Rear axle capacity (kg) -------------------------1800----------------------2650-----------------1800

Edit; and my tyre placard says 2240 rear not 2650 as above WTF

[threedogs]

@ Macca those figures were in back of 4x4 aust mag. Could be meds lol
If it weighs 2120 and can carry 1160 isn't that GVM of 3280? 3ltr only

[macca]

@ Macca those figures were in back of 4x4 aust mag. Could be meds lol
If it weighs 2120 and can carry 1160 isn't that GVM of 3280? 3ltr only

Im not taking any thing and still missed the adding mistake!!

As to your question; I have no idea as Cuppa & Myself have 4.2 leaf rears the rest of the numbers confuse the origional intention of the post IYKWIM.

Damn hard with all the variations within the models to get to the meat & potaters we are after.

[Cuppa]

Edit; and my tyre placard says 2240 rear not 2650 as above WTF

I'm guessing that placard only relates to TYRES?

My placard (the one in the glovebox) refers to 7.50R16 8 ply light truck tyres.
It gives a load carrying capacity per axle as:
Front 1510kg
Rear 2270kg

Underneath this it reads "The sum of the load carrying capacities of the tyres fitted to any axle or axle group of this vehicle shall not be LESS than the relevant load shown above.

My reading of this is that with appropriate tyres the load carrying capacity of the TYRES would be higher, which fits with what I have been told about the need for 'heavier duty' tyres to meet the criteria for GVM upgrade.

Cuppa

Edit. 1510 +2270 = 3780. I'd guess that it is a requirement that tyres are a bit 'over-specified’ so that they are not at their full load carrying capacity at the GVM OF 3400.

[macca]

Makes sense Cuppa, rest of the weights are all over the place.
Chuck in whats needed and go, nothing else for it from what I can see. :driving2:

[Winnie]

Take everything out and just chuck a swag in the back..... ahaha sorry mate. How's things looking with the GVM upgrade?

[threedogs]

IMO most L/T construction would be fine for what you need ,
H/T are useles steer well clear of them
. With Macca if you sit level with the aid of air or more leaves, just go

[Sir Roofy]

Stop stressing mate just go or you,l never do it,every 4x4 out there
would be over the gvm with draws fridges and mods as well as recovery
gear

[macca]

Stop stressing mate just go or you,l never do it,every 4x4 out there
would be over the gvm with draws fridges and mods as well as recovery
gear

Thats for sure Roofy

[DX grunt]

TD I'm confused
My ute with coil / leaf
DX 4.2TDi Wide wheel
Tyre placard says axle capacities
Front 1530kg Rear 2240kg
Firewall compliance plate
GVM 3400kg

Thanks everybody for your input with this thread. You've got my attention! lol

Mines a 2005, 4.2 TDi with a Roscos Trademate Lite pod.

Tyre placard says axle capacities
Front 1510kg Rear 2270kg - Placard quotes 8PRLT
Firewall compliance plate
GVM 3400kg

Mine's also got a coil front and 10 leafs (each side - lol) on the back.

My tyres are LT235/85/R16 - 120/116 Q - Kuhmo Road Venture AT - 10 ply rating.

My rego papers say:
Tare: 2740
Agg: 3400
GCM:5900

I might try and lose some weight. lol

From what I've read, we all lead pretty different camping lifestyles and 'pack' accordingly.

Eventually I'll pack and weigh. I may carry a bit of excessive gear, but don't scrimp out on recovery stuff, 'just-in-case.'

Weight wise, I pack all my stuff on the floor of the pod and put our double bed HD foam mattress on top. The mattress is reasonably light and is a weight saving initiative. lol

When you guys talk about water storage, do you mean the black plastic tank on the back left hand side of the pod? I think it's a 20-30lt capacity.

I've still got my hot/cold water system in the back.

Rossco

[Cuppa]

When you guys talk about water storage, do you mean the black plastic tank on the back left hand side of the pod? I think it's a 20-30lt capacity.



Yep, it’s 30 litres.
We’ll use ours as the ‘extra’ water supply in addition to the 150litre tank inside the pod. Haven’t ever used it yet but it will help extend our times away from ‘civilisation’ in areas where water is hard to come by.

[Robo]

Cuppa I see this is old but after reading, and considering things like this myself.
So what type of solar panels are you using.
those heavy full frame type or light weight types no frames, no glass.

Its a ute right,
replace Ute's rear window with something lighter.

consider alloy tent poles if ya use poles at all.

Tool boxes--I know it may be a messy,
try if ya can, do away with the metal boxes the tools came in.
put your sockets etc in a small home made string pull bag instead "sleeping bag".
a plastic tackle box or "cuppa" ware container can take the longer pointy tools in bulk.
relook at how everything is stored, are you carrying un-needed weight with just whats each item is packed inside of, then it's inside another box and then inside your camper, maybe doubling/tripling on packing weight with how thing are stored.

do ya carry an axe and a hammer, the back of an axe is a good hammer doing away with the hammer.
retail type tent peg puller, bending a tent peg near middle making a crude S shape makes a good puller.
and this puller will lift the lid on ya cast pots also, losing another tool.

Yes I'm am suggesting an untidy way of packing the tools,
but losing weight is the game, and will also save fuel $$,
but are you leaving home with vehicle maintained or not,
my guess is yes you are prepared, so there'e a good chance you won't need to get tools out,
having them neatly sorted in original containers and carting extra weight is possibly not needed.

doubt this will lose the weight your seeking to dump,
but would be a step in the right direction,
and less time unpacking and repacking to use said items.
and save some space to-boot,make packing slightly easier.
cheers cuppa hope that helps some.

[threedogs]

My mate has an extended GU dual cab and takes it all over the world to places we can only dream of.
some places are tracing early explorers, anyway fully packed with fuel and water to do the CSR, he just touches
4Ton, but gets lighter the further he goes,
One member here his ute could not handle outback conditions as a few others here as well.
So he ended up buying a vechile that suited the conditions
being so heavy doesnt make for comfortable touring, placing stress and strain on all components.


Some take too much but how much is too much when it comes to recovery or vehicle spares

[Cuppa]

Cuppa I see this is old but after reading, and considering things like this myself.
So what type of solar panels are you using.
those heavy full frame type or light weight types no frames, no glass.

Its a ute right,
replace Ute's rear window with something lighter.

consider alloy tent poles if ya use poles at all.

Tool boxes--I know it may be a messy,
try if ya can, do away with the metal boxes the tools came in.
put your sockets etc in a small home made string pull bag instead "sleeping bag".
a plastic tackle box or "cuppa" ware container can take the longer pointy tools in bulk.
relook at how everything is stored, are you carrying un-needed weight with just whats each item is packed inside of, then it's inside another box and then inside your camper, maybe doubling/tripling on packing weight with how thing are stored.

do ya carry an axe and a hammer, the back of an axe is a good hammer doing away with the hammer.
retail type tent peg puller, bending a tent peg near middle making a crude S shape makes a good puller.
and this puller will lift the lid on ya cast pots also, losing another tool.

Yes I'm am suggesting an untidy way of packing the tools,
but losing weight is the game, and will also save fuel $$,
but are you leaving home with vehicle maintained or not,
my guess is yes you are prepared, so there'e a good chance you won't need to get tools out,
having them neatly sorted in original containers and carting extra weight is possibly not needed.

doubt this will lose the weight your seeking to dump,
but would be a step in the right direction,
and less time unpacking and repacking to use said items.
and save some space to-boot,make packing slightly easier.
cheers cuppa hope that helps some.

Hi Robo,
I am certainly a great believer in having as much gear which can serve more than a single purpose as possible. However as the vehicle was fitted out for a full time ‘on the road’ lifestyle, (ie away from home for a year or more at a time) including accessing remote areas with just my wife & myself, with a view to spending the maximum periods of time away from ‘civilisation’ there simply is no way of getting around the fact that we need the ability to carry a lot of stuff. We are also set up to be able to indefinitely self sufficient for power, including sufficient battery capacity to see us through at least a week under trees or of poor solar weather.
Reality was that the fitout of my Patrol was the result of much consideration, & it was simply not possible to reduce the weight to below the factory GVM without destroying the integrity of the overall fitout. Any weight reduction would be ‘tinkering at the edges’. Subsequently the GVM upgrade gave me another 500kg. Of course I don’t want to use any more of that than necessary.

Since that time we have made 3 main weight reducing moves. First was changing from steel winch cable & rollers to a dyneema rope & alloy cause. (13kg). Second was the removal of the rooftop tent & steel roofbars (approx 70 -75kg) All the solar panels which were previously carried inside the pod (300w in addition to the cab mounted 125w) are now permanently mounted on the roof. (& yes they are glass ones - they are what I had). Thirdly we bought a Tvan, which whilst not actually reducing overall weight does give us the option of rationalising the weight distribution of our gear between car & trailer. We do also carry a tent, so can leave the Tvan behind when needed. Whilst we now have the ability to carry up to 4 weeks worth of water (in water saving mode), most of the time much less can be carried. Packed & ready to head off for a trip, my guess is that we will still be over the factory GVM, but by less than before. I’d guess at between 3500 & 3600kg. In day to day use at home the car would be well under the factory gvm, probably around 3200kg is my guess.

I’m confident that in places where the weight really matters (Canning Stock Route for example) that we probably won’t be any heavier than many others & in addition we will have the benefit of being able to travel as slowly as we want, placing far less strain on the vehicle than many who have limited time frames for their adventures.

I do still need to rationalise my toolkit before we take off full time though!

[alfonso]

Hey cuppa the new lithium deep cycle batteries are now on the market and are a tenth of the weight of the agm also parabolic leaf springs are less than half the weight of traditionals just a thought

[Cuppa]

Hey cuppa the new lithium deep cycle batteries are now on the market and are a tenth of the weight of the agm also parabolic leaf springs are less than half the weight of traditionals just a thought

Lithiums were available when I bought the AGM’s, & yep, they have some significant advantages. However the required battery management systems are either very expensive or require diy knowledge & understanding I don’t have. If buying now I think I would go for Lithium as diy knowledge is more easily available, but as I hope that my AGM’s will last for years yet, I’m in no rush to switch just yet. Weight is around ¼ of lead acid once the required strapping etc is taken into account.

Parabolics just weren’t an option. It was a case of having to use Lovells springs, along with the rest of the Lovells GVM kit if I was going to have the local engineer sign off f the upgrade. I’m sure parabolics would give a plusher ride, but I’m unsure whether they woud have the same carrying capacity.

[pearcey]

G`day Cuppa.
Hope all is going well with the new building project IE shed. Say g`day to Mrs Tea for me.
I can`t remember how many spare wheels and tyres you carry .After years of carrying 2 spares and never needing to using the second I reverted to 1 and as the camper trailer, caravan both have a spare, which are all matched, I ended up off loading some 50/60 Kgs .
The carrying of tools and spares is a big problem as I see people carrying way too much and things they would not use or some times be unable to fit.Little things like rear wheel bearings ,if it fails in the bush you would not be able to chance it, a bearing weighs around 1Kg plus storage, small saving I know.Spare springs especially leaf, the most important one is the main leaf so only carry one main leaf saving around 80 Kgs on a spring pack.We only carry a 40Lt main fridge and an 18 Lt as a freezer. With the use of carefully selected long life foods one can save on weight and storage there as well. On our 21 day trip down the Canning the only thing we bought was fuel at well 32. As you know I didn`t have a roof rack as I detest them and every thing was stored in the vehicle or in the camper. Camper weight was just under 900Kgs .
Just seen that you do carry 2 spares.
Best of luck mate and looking forward to seeing your posts when you hit the road.

[threedogs]

@ Cuppa have you done a trial run fully loaded to see what fuel figures you get, camper in tow?
Full fuel tanks and full water, simulate full stores some how.

[Cuppa]

G`day Cuppa.
Hope all is going well with the new building project IE shed. Say g`day to Mrs Tea for me.
I can`t remember how many spare wheels and tyres you carry .After years of carrying 2 spares and never needing to using the second I reverted to 1 and as the camper trailer, caravan both have a spare, which are all matched, I ended up off loading some 50/60 Kgs .
The carrying of tools and spares is a big problem as I see people carrying way too much and things they would not use or some times be unable to fit.Little things like rear wheel bearings ,if it fails in the bush you would not be able to chance it, a bearing weighs around 1Kg plus storage, small saving I know.Spare springs especially leaf, the most important one is the main leaf so only carry one main leaf saving around 80 Kgs on a spring pack.We only carry a 40Lt main fridge and an 18 Lt as a freezer. With the use of carefully selected long life foods one can save on weight and storage there as well. On our 21 day trip down the Canning the only thing we bought was fuel at well 32. As you know I didn`t have a roof rack as I detest them and every thing was stored in the vehicle or in the camper. Camper weight was just under 900Kgs .
Just seen that you do carry 2 spares.
Best of luck mate and looking forward to seeing your posts when you hit the road.

G’day Pearcey,
MrsTea says hello, she’s laid up feeling a tad sorry for herself at the moment, having had knee surgery on Wednesday. I’m missing her TA skills - all the timber for building the dwelling in the shed was delivered today & I’ve been preparing the layout on the slab. Using a stringline to get chalk lines is not the easiest of things to achieve without someone to hold the other end of the string! LOL. Hopefully I’ll be able to start building over the weekend in between playing nurse, cook & washer upperer.

I did carry two spares, but since changing the tyres on the Tvan to match the Patrol I now have a third on the Tvan’s drawbar. I wasn’t going to bother with a 3rd but wanted to keep the framework on the drawbar to carry jerries etc. Without a spare mounted on it the protective cover doesn’t fit properly. I may eventually get a different cover made & only carry the 2 spares. Also since getting the Tvan I have removed the rooftop tent losing around 70kg. When the GVM upgrade was done, in full touring mode with both of us on board we were running around 3700kg. I’d guess that with the removal of the RTT & a little rationalising of ’stuff’ between the Patrol & Tvan, the Patrol is now around 3600kg in touring mode. (In everyday home use I’d guess around 3300kg. For a rig intended for solo long term remote touring I think the weight is fairly reasonable. Plenty of folk travel at similar weights. Tare weight of the Tvan is 890kg (including spare) with an ATM of 1400kg. I wouldn’t think we’ve had it over 1200kg to date.

Experience may change my thoughts, but although my Patrol is heavier than many Patrol owners in day to day use, I don’t really think that the touring weight is that different to many & given the type of travel it will be used for I think this quite a reasonable achievement. I know that minimising weight is sensible to reduce pressure on the vehicle generally, but most people still have to travel to a schedule. We don’t intend to do this, instead planning slow travel. This allows for reduced pressure on the vehicle that others who need to rush don’t have the luxury of. Not only maintaining lower speeds but choosing not to travel into headwinds, when too hot or wet etc.
That said I still intend to go through the tools & spares as ruthlessly as I can, & we will only travel fully loaded when necessary (dependent upon how long we expect to stay away from places to resupply.)

TD,
I think the wider body of the Telstra pod, plus the solar panels (replaced RTT) on the roof contribute to highish fuel consumption, although that said I’ve found that fuel consumption has remained much the same regardless of whether it’s fully loaded touring mode or in day to day mode with a few hundred less kilos. I consistently get around 950 to 970 kilometres out of the two tanks (180 litres). Haven’t done any long trips with the Tvan yet, but one camping trip we did (with a fairly full load & towing the tvan) of 530kms still saw us get the 950kms out of the tanks & that included some fairly hilly country! Have never completely emptied the tanks so I reckon around 17 to 18 litres per 100kms.

[pearcey]

Hope all goes well Mrs Tea and your back up and running around soon. I know you`ll do the right thing,not like me pushing the limits and doing more damage.
Cuppa, as you say time is on your side so the risk of damage and breakdowns is minimized.On all our trips the only time there seemed to be trouble is when there were time restraints, now days it`s great to slow down and enjoy.