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gaddy
26th February 2013, 05:33 PM
Not sure if this has been brought up but with the rain around it might be a timely reminder for lights on in rainy , or low light conditions , I am out doing my country trip in the Western downs , and there has been some very heavy rain at times , the number of cars with no lights on is growing , and also had a caravan in front at one stage that you could not see from 50 meters away , so lights on guys when conditions are ordinary , and check those trailers as well

Cheers
Gaddy

Alitis007
26th February 2013, 06:03 PM
And hazard lights in Fog!!

Drewboyaus
26th February 2013, 06:09 PM
Bloody Oath. As a sales exec, I spend quite a bit of time on the roads and it blows my mind some of the basics that people don't think about......on low light or rainy days I often get "flashed" as if to say "do you realise you have your lights on?" Ahem.....no sh!t......perhaps they should ask them selves why I have my lights on.........
And don't get me started on drivers that don't/can't read or comply with road markings.....it's for your own safety fools! Far out......Rant over!

MEGOMONSTER
26th February 2013, 06:09 PM
very simple but effective safeguard. why would you not do it

gaddy
26th February 2013, 06:16 PM
Also the number of mining company cars with no lights on , I would have that it would have been a requirement for them ,

Gaddy

gaddy
26th February 2013, 06:17 PM
Also the number of mining company cars with no lights on , I would have that it would have been a requirement for them ,

Gaddy

taslucas
26th February 2013, 06:20 PM
Just don't have them on high beam ESPECIALLY YOU GUYS WITH THE HIDS!!!

FanTapstic!

Steve4wdin
26th February 2013, 06:22 PM
I agree, But lets go a step further. How hard / expensive would it be for car manufactures to install a switch from wipers to head lights. Auto system. Wippers on, Lights on. This is not rocket science.
Steve.

Winnie
26th February 2013, 06:27 PM
newer cars do have that!

threedogs
26th February 2013, 07:27 PM
New cars don't do themselves with their colour. my bullbar is charcoal metallic and raining in low light
its the same colour as the road, today I had the "HIT ME" sticker on . i always put my parkers on minimum
on the streets and lights on ,on the freeway for truck spray when overcast or raining. really peeves me when others dont
make themselves visable. Needs a TV education segment. Can't beat a white car/4x4 IMO

Winnie
26th February 2013, 07:30 PM
Or just a Patrol so big and noisy nobody can NOT see it!???

threedogs
26th February 2013, 07:37 PM
Thats the attitude winnie light bar on "Somebody stop me"

NP99
27th February 2013, 09:22 PM
And a loud horn to honk idiots.....

Drewboyaus
28th February 2013, 09:43 AM
And a loud horn to honk idiots.....

Had better have done a horn upgrade then......LMAO.....


Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

MC97GQ
28th February 2013, 09:53 AM
New cars don't do themselves with their colour. my bullbar is charcoal metallic and raining in low light
its the same colour as the road, today I had the "HIT ME" sticker on . i always put my parkers on minimum
on the streets and lights on ,on the freeway for truck spray when overcast or raining. really peeves me when others dont
make themselves visable. Needs a TV education segment. Can't beat a white car/4x4 IMO

Totally agree TD,

On overcast days or country roads with over hanging trees, depending on the colour of the car they can almost disappear into the landscape.

I believe it should be mandatory that when you drive you should at least have to have parking lights on.

Mark

Dominator
28th February 2013, 10:24 AM
I always have my lights on when raining, I also put my park lights on while 4wding in dusty conditions so that people behind you can see me before I hit them.

Robo
1st March 2013, 12:25 AM
And hazard lights in Fog!!
I know you mean well !
Pardon but aint hazards only for when your broken down on the shoulder.
Do you mean the extra red bright tail light fog light?.
Sorry but if I saw Hazards in front of me, possibly slamming the brakes on,
or turning sharply to avoid a stationary vehicle in front of me.

An area north of Sydney called Mt White, the name says it all .
never seen the hazards used yet to locate a car in the fog while moving.
Its the F3 freeway, 3 lanes wide bumper to bumper 50 klm in peek hr.
High numbers even when peeks over.
that many vehicles 3 lanes wide with hazards going would just be a hazard in its-self.

Not having a shot across the bow at ya , just think hazards would raise the level of confusion out there.
Hazards maybe used in your area for such purposes but I've never seen it that way around here.
the way some people drive we need less confusion hands down.
Safe travels

Drewboyaus
1st March 2013, 07:03 AM
Personally not sure about the hazards in fog idea myself but I have seen it done in various parts of Europe.
The last car into a stoppage on the road puts their hazards on to let those behind know the traffic is stopped up ahead.



Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

Alitis007
1st March 2013, 07:22 AM
I know you mean well !
Pardon but aint hazards only for when your broken down on the shoulder.
Do you mean the extra red bright tail light fog light?.
Sorry but if I saw Hazards in front of me, possibly slamming the brakes on,
or turning sharply to avoid a stationary vehicle in front of me.

An area north of Sydney called Mt White, the name says it all .
never seen the hazards used yet to locate a car in the fog while moving.
Its the F3 freeway, 3 lanes wide bumper to bumper 50 klm in peek hr.
High numbers even when peeks over.
that many vehicles 3 lanes wide with hazards going would just be a hazard in its-self.

Not having a shot across the bow at ya , just think hazards would raise the level of confusion out there.
Hazards maybe used in your area for such purposes but I've never seen it that way around here.
the way some people drive we need less confusion hands down.
Safe travels

I get what your saying BUT when your car is not fitted with rear fog lights, in thick fog you cant be seen only in the last 10m possibly and when you do see a car with hazard lights on you approach it with caution not flat out!! The amber/ orange light travels thru fog better then white or red colored light thats why in areas prone to fog the street lights are amber/orange, plus when you buy a car from japan fitted with factory fog lights they are yellow and not white light our driving lights!!!

If you saw me on the freeway with my hazard lights it would be well over 100m away so in fact i would be doing you a favor if you where paying attention because you will know i am in front of you and you wouldn't be driving blind!!! And any way if you happened to see me drive in fog YOU WOULDN'T KEEP UP !! Because i don't slow down and i drive my toy like i stole it!!!

MC97GQ
1st March 2013, 07:47 AM
Hi all,

I thought I would post this link from the NRMA(NSW version RAC etc) about the correct use of lights on your vehicle it also mentions about using hazard lights in low visibility situations.

http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring/road-safety/safer-driving/country/fog.htm

I hope this is of use

Mark

MC97GQ
1st March 2013, 08:10 AM
It also mentions on page 145 of the RMS Road Users Handbook

Driving in hazardous weather conditions.

DX grunt
1st March 2013, 08:20 AM
Gotta love the ex Telstra trucks. Lights come on 'automatically' after about 10 secs of ignition on, and go off about 10 secs after ignition off.

To be able to use the high beam, you have to switch the lights from the 'off' position to the 'on' position, other than that, the headlights automatically come on when in the 'off' position.

I'm not a fan of using 'parking lights' whilst driving - at all. Parking lights are for use when parked, not driving.

Robo
1st March 2013, 12:26 PM
I understand what you fellars are saying completely.
It sorta make sence and I respect your right to have your say

hazard lights are now having 2 meanings.
there is NO ROOM for two meanings to signals.
this make things confusing and potentially a life threatening situation.
proberly the exact reasons why it's not law

is it a breakdown on the side of the rd.
or someone still in the lane going slow.
now if it's a break down you can pass no problem.
we all know that's what 99.9% of us would do hay!.
now its a car in the lane going slow, so 99.9% of us are now swerving to go around,
either,
into oncoming traffic, off a cliff, into guard rail, think you get it.
another case, here comes a multi trailer truck 80 + tonne .
think it would slow down simply because it sees a couple of flashing lights!.
he just thinks the above or a few vehicles changing lanes ahead
nar you just became its new front hood icon.
we all know they don't slow down rain hail or shine do they.

if we are driving down the rd into fog we don't need the added distraction of lights flashing.
a number of vehicles would make a curtain of flashing light making it even harder to see, work out what's what in front of you.
you already know your in the fog and need to slow down how in the heck is more light bouncing around going to help!.

we are all in to much of a hurry these days,
never leave enough time to get where we are going.
we simply need to slow down when needed.
m2cw.

Drewboyaus
1st March 2013, 01:16 PM
I understand what you fellars are saying completely.
It sorta make sence and I respect your right to have your say

hazard lights are now having 2 meanings.
there is NO ROOM for two meanings to signals.
this make things confusing and potentially a life threatening situation.
proberly the exact reasons why it's not law

is it a breakdown on the side of the rd.
or someone still in the lane going slow.
now if it's a break down you can pass no problem.
we all know that's what 99.9% of us would do hay!.
now its a car in the lane going slow, so 99.9% of us are now swerving to go around,
either,
into oncoming traffic, off a cliff, into guard rail, think you get it.
another case, here comes a multi trailer truck 80 + tonne .
think it would slow down simply because it sees a couple of flashing lights!.
he just thinks the above or a few vehicles changing lanes ahead
nar you just became its new front hood icon.
we all know they don't slow down rain hail or shine do they.

if we are driving down the rd into fog we don't need the added distraction of lights flashing.
a number of vehicles would make a curtain of flashing light making it even harder to see, work out what's what in front of you.
you already know your in the fog and need to slow down how in the heck is more light bouncing around going to help!.

we are all in to much of a hurry these days,
never leave enough time to get where we are going.
we simply need to slow down when needed.
m2cw.

My view is hazard light equal just that, a hazard. Should be slowing down to check it out regardless of what you think it might be....


Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

Alitis007
1st March 2013, 09:51 PM
From the website Mc97gq posted,
Driving in snow section
"What lights do I need?
Check all lights - low and high beams, tail stop, reversing and driving lights. Yellow tinted fog lights can assist in misty conditions. These should be mounted low, near the road surface and not focussed high. High beam will cause a "white out" effect in fog so use low beam only.

Also check interior and map lights are working and take along a powerful flash light or spot light for reading sign posts and recognising landmarks in unfamiliar territory."
Driving in hazardous conditions
"Headlights
Must be switched on when driving between sunset and sunrise
When there is not enough daylight to be able to see a person wearing dark clothing at a distance of 100 metres."
Extreme conditions
Heavy rain, fog or snow - put your headlights onto low beam. High beam in fog will reflect the light, making it difficult to see.
In hazardous conditions, the law permits you to turn on your hazard lights to help others see you."

Alitis007
1st March 2013, 10:14 PM
I understand what you fellars are saying completely.
It sorta make sence and I respect your right to have your say

hazard lights are now having 2 meanings.
there is NO ROOM for two meanings to signals.
this make things confusing and potentially a life threatening situation.
proberly the exact reasons why it's not law

is it a breakdown on the side of the rd.
or someone still in the lane going slow.
now if it's a break down you can pass no problem.
we all know that's what 99.9% of us would do hay!.
now its a car in the lane going slow, so 99.9% of us are now swerving to go around,
either,
into oncoming traffic, off a cliff, into guard rail, think you get it.
another case, here comes a multi trailer truck 80 + tonne .
think it would slow down simply because it sees a couple of flashing lights!.
he just thinks the above or a few vehicles changing lanes ahead
nar you just became its new front hood icon.
we all know they don't slow down rain hail or shine do they.

if we are driving down the rd into fog we don't need the added distraction of lights flashing.
a number of vehicles would make a curtain of flashing light making it even harder to see, work out what's what in front of you.
you already know your in the fog and need to slow down how in the heck is more light bouncing around going to help!.

we are all in to much of a hurry these days,
never leave enough time to get where we are going.
we simply need to slow down when needed.
m2cw.

The point i'm trying to make is the same as driving with your lights on low visibility conditions, you need to make other road users know you are there more so in zero visibility conditions like fog. Driving in fog is hazardous thats why the law states you can drive with hazard lights on and if you were driving thru fog and saw a car driving with its hazard lights on you will understand what i mean!!

On the Woods points trip we did, in the morning i was driving thru extremely dense fog i honestly couldn't see past my bonnet i had my hazards on and i past 2 other cars, 1 was a tow truck that saw my lights flashing and then turned on his hazards and flashing lights. Luck for both of us because of the conditions we where both in the middle of the road, as we past each other i looked at his head lights and i could barely see them and his tail lights at a meters distance but the amber/orange lights could be seen from 50m.
I could go on forever but i will leave it at this, drive to survive so make yourself visible to other road users!!!

MC97GQ
1st March 2013, 10:43 PM
Robo,

What we are saying is not old wives tales, and mate I know the roads(F3, Pacific Hwy) you are talking about.

Mate, I commuted between Newwie and Sydney when the F3 ran from Peats Ridge to Berowra, and it still had a toll.

When you are in a total white out, the more lights to make your presence known the better.

The point that is trying to be made and I'm a big advocate for it, is when it's overcast, rainy or just crap weather throw on the headlights.

When it is absolutely abyssmal , turn on every light you can.

And if you do have your hazard's on and some dope runs off the road because they are not driving to the conditions, mate you are blameless, you tried your best.

Just some thoughts

Mark

Steve4wdin
2nd March 2013, 09:12 AM
I have to agree with Mark on this one. Last year I went on a bike ride north. Coming back it was pissing rain, wind and fog. Everyones visors were fogging up and very hard to see. I had a electric windscreen on my bike so was able to see and with hazards on the rest of the crew were able to see me and get through safety. Plus idiots in cars could also see.

Robo
2nd March 2013, 12:44 PM
I completely understand.
a hazard is a hazard.
your trying to be more visible all good I see your point.
I'm just trying to put a point of view across, not everyone thinks the same way.
yes trying to stand out is always a good idea

but the thing is, your also trying to maintain a higher speed, by using the hazard lights.
the first thing that should be happening is to slow down further.
a pair of lights that main purpose is another purpose, isn't the answer.

it may also contributed to an accident, as clear signals are not necessarily given.
we cant have people doing three different things with the same lights.
bet you wont have time to turn hazards off and then indicate,
I back your idea of increasing safety.
I'm the guy who see's first hand these things go pear shaped you don't want to see what I see.
I to have a family, drive and look at this from all points of view, including the aftermath.

Giving this more thought, hows this.
I'm simply putting it forward that the old idea of using hazard lights is simply, an old out-dated idea.

Car manufactures in Australia need to include a rear fog light as standard, on all model cars they make.
they can include blue tooth, multiple expensive air bags , multi spear packages etc.
But not a simple and CHEAP safety device.

Forget the argument not all places have fog.
not all places flood either, but flood insurance is now a law.
seat belts were made standard and fitted to all cars
not everyone will have an accident, so the seat belt does what.

Now if it was that simple you would think our insurances company's would push it, not all places have fog, and replacing a light damaged in an accident in clear weather, which is the norm, cuts corporate profit and managements bonuses.
it always comes down to the bottom line and safety is always left wanting!!.

We need a new Australian standard.
Bright Red Fog light made mandatory, for all vehicles sold in Australia.
and an up grade fitted to vehicles on our Rd's in say a 2 yr time frame.
That may save some lives, forget all the other bonuses, will save lives is the objective.
some of us think nothing of buying a extra safety this or that to go off rd 4x4ing.
Ohh what a pain fitting a $50 light.
carton of beer or bottle of scotch these days.
cheap to improve safety really.

Cheers and safe driving.

zaid-m
3rd March 2013, 02:06 AM
Hi guys, just been reading this topic about lights, lighting, and driving in hazardous conditions.

Here in the UK through European legislation all vehicles now sold have day light running lights (DLR) at the front, it makes the car just that little bit more visible during conditions that are not optimal, and also means should somebody "forget" to turn on their headlights there's a backup.

However the ruling does not require their to be a set of rear running lights during the day.....

My opinion is the Volvo method : start ignition : headlights are lit, it requires you to switch them to parking lights or full beams (Is this not similar to the way that many mining operations vehicles work ?) And having driven in Germany, it is recommended that headlights are turned on, even in good conditions - again providing visibility for the vehicle to oncoming traffic.

See and be seen - and in this case seen is more important.

The BigFella
3rd March 2013, 08:05 AM
This subject is extremely close to my heart.
Last week when driving down from Brisbane I was almost involved in a head on with an idiot in a grey vehicle with no lights on.
Let me paint the picture, the rain was heavy, it was extremely dark with storm clouds over head, the road spray made visibility extremely poor.
We were traversing single lane road when all of a sudden out of nowhere I was presented with an on coming dark grey falcon dead centre of my bullbar, heading my way!
Now, due to serving in the RFS and visiting more then my fare share of MVA's I have a phobia of dying in a head-on and am always scanning on-coming traffic.
If I hadn't have taken immediate evasive action, (swerved off the road, hit the brakes and tried to control both my vehicle and loaded car trailer) I doubt I would be typing this today.
The driver was busy adjusting the stereo or some other task they deemed more important than focussing on the road in front.

My point, if their lights had have been on "they" would have been a lot more visible to all others on the road. And I would have taken the necessary action before panic buttons were pushed!

I agree with 4 ways on in extreme fog conditions, after-all limited or no vision in thick fog is a hazard! I might add here that many a MVA was caused by a slower vehicle being rear ended in thick fog!

The only thing I will say about "being seen" is for Christ sake turn those bloody factory fog lights OFF!
They are so bloody bright and most are focussed upwards, rather then "under the fog' which is what they were originally designed to do.
As you guys know I average 200,000 k's per year and the amount of times I am forced to turn my eyes away from oncoming traffic due to their fog lights being on really is quite dangerous.

Cheers Guys, safe travels!

Alitis007
3rd March 2013, 01:08 PM
I completely understand.
a hazard is a hazard.
your trying to be more visible all good I see your point.
I'm just trying to put a point of view across, not everyone thinks the same way.
yes trying to stand out is always a good idea

but the thing is, your also trying to maintain a higher speed, by using the hazard lights.
the first thing that should be happening is to slow down further.
a pair of lights that main purpose is another purpose, isn't the answer.

it may also contributed to an accident, as clear signals are not necessarily given.
we cant have people doing three different things with the same lights.
bet you wont have time to turn hazards off and then indicate,
I back your idea of increasing safety.
I'm the guy who see's first hand these things go pear shaped you don't want to see what I see.
I to have a family, drive and look at this from all points of view, including the aftermath.

Giving this more thought, hows this.
I'm simply putting it forward that the old idea of using hazard lights is simply, an old out-dated idea.

Car manufactures in Australia need to include a rear fog light as standard, on all model cars they make.
they can include blue tooth, multiple expensive air bags , multi spear packages etc.
But not a simple and CHEAP safety device.

Forget the argument not all places have fog.
not all places flood either, but flood insurance is now a law.
seat belts were made standard and fitted to all cars
not everyone will have an accident, so the seat belt does what.

Now if it was that simple you would think our insurances company's would push it, not all places have fog, and replacing a light damaged in an accident in clear weather, which is the norm, cuts corporate profit and managements bonuses.
it always comes down to the bottom line and safety is always left wanting!!.

We need a new Australian standard.
Bright Red Fog light made mandatory, for all vehicles sold in Australia.
and an up grade fitted to vehicles on our Rd's in say a 2 yr time frame.
That may save some lives, forget all the other bonuses, will save lives is the objective.
some of us think nothing of buying a extra safety this or that to go off rd 4x4ing.
Ohh what a pain fitting a $50 light.
carton of beer or bottle of scotch these days.
cheap to improve safety really.

Cheers and safe driving.

Mate we have to use the tools we have and as its been said before driving in thick fog is a hazard in it self, slowing down in these conditions makes you the hazard so how is using the hazard lights in fog 2 meanings?? Isn't being broken down on the side of the road just as dangerous as driving in fog or heavy rain with alot of spray off other vehicles??

Mate i'm not targeting you in any way just trying to make my point clear just incase i wasn't in my other post!

thelawz
11th April 2013, 08:06 PM
Some people don't understand that just because you can see where you are going, it doesn't mean other drivers can see you.

BoojaBear
6th June 2013, 10:21 AM
I work in the mines and all cars have there lights wired up so if the engine is running then the lights are on.
If the mines can make it a blanket rule. So can the government

threedogs
6th June 2013, 10:36 AM
I always turn at least park light on if raining then on hwy or Freeway where spray is more common I'll turn headlights on.
Last 4x4 was white and big {troopy} be seen be safe . My Patrol is Pewter with a dark metalic grey bullbar etc, exactely the same
colour as a wet road. I want ppl to see me, Shame some ppl cant see the issue here. Should be manditory to turn some lights on in dark conditions.

taslucas
6th June 2013, 12:29 PM
I work in the mines and all cars have there lights wired up so if the engine is running then the lights are on.
If the mines can make it a blanket rule. So can the government

But there's nothing worse than a shite load of glare when you're trying to focus on an oncoming vehicle and it's movements. It's easier to spot a car further away if it has its lights on but very hard to actually see the car when it gets closer. All you see is a bright glare that you instinctively look away from. In rain and lower light, go for the park lights , leave the headlights for dark time

Sig test. android, MC version 2.4.7.11

SonOf
6th June 2013, 06:09 PM
I think in seriously thick fog, and we get heaps of it hear in far south Tassie that hazard light make it easier to see someone in front of you & more importantly let someone who seems to think doing 100kph in fog is fine, see you.

The one thing that is really annoying, no matter the weather are cars with light that are out of adjustment and focus right at eye sight level, whether they are HID or Halogen the glare is just plain annoying and dangerous. Not sure why when you get a service that the lights are not checked for adjustment?

Cuppa
6th June 2013, 06:30 PM
White is good, but I believe the safest most visible colour for motor vehicles is bright yellow.

Of course to be seen, whatever colour the vehicle, or whether the lights are on or not requires other drivers to be alert & aware of what is going on around them. Not always the case unfortunately .... just try riding a motorcycle & you quickly appreciate this.

Cuppa

gaddy
1st April 2015, 09:48 AM
Looks like we are in for a wet easter up this way , get em on and drive safe !

threedogs
1st April 2015, 10:04 AM
Looks like we are in for a wet easter up this way , get em on and drive safe !

Yes even on long hwy hauls its a good idea to put some lights on, You may notice buses do it.
and for a good reason to be seen, Ive ridden bikes most of my life and always had the headlight on.
I couldnt believe the Motorcycle association did not want it to be manditory no brainer for me be seen be safe .
Also Ive been told driving with the lights on give you negitive charging to a certain extent,
maybe ET could shine some light on that comment. Maybe more old school thinking

Remember there will be a lot of part time drivers on the road over Easter, as in its the
only time of the year they do any hwy miles, just stay safe and take heaps of pcs

4bye4
1st April 2015, 11:35 AM
"Also Ive been told driving with the lights on give you negitive charging to a certain extent,
maybe ET could shine some light on that comment. Maybe more old school thinking"
TD I've had a fair bit to do with parasitic loads on motors (a parasitic load is anything that does not have somthing to do with the running of the engine - fridges,spotlights etc.)
Anyway a vehicle should be able to run and charge with a at least all the standard equipment on. That is you should be able to charge the battery driving along with the headlights on high beam and the air con on and the radio going. If you have other equipment added, such as fridges and light bars you may have to consider upgrading your alternator. Anyway the vehicle should be able to run all day every day with the lights on and still charge the battery and operate other standard features.
Not trying to steal ET's thunder BTW, just my opinion.