Drivers seething over stockton sand dunes

[NissanGQ4.2]

http://www.nbnnews.com.au/index.php/2013/01/23/drivers-seething-over-stockton-sand-dunes/

[nissannewby]

This is becoming all to similar. I was speaking to a member on here about camping and driving on Double Island up here in QLD, it use to be free. I was up there the weekend just gone and for to drive and camp up there for 2 nights cost me $48. They have closed some of the beach off towards noosa and there is only 1 cut to access the beach.

[NissanGQ4.2]

yeh all to common these days,

They have cut some access of to Stockton Beach already, below is a media release from NSW Environment and Heritage

http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/media/OEHmedia12092000.htm

Camping closures still in force at Stockton Beach
Media release: 20 September 2012

Slower than expected recovery of the sand has forced the continued closure of beach camping at Stockton Beach Stockton Beach in the Worimi Conservation Lands following severe storms earlier this year.
National Parks and Wildlife Service (NPWS) Hunter Coast Area Manager Mick Murphy said that the winter storms which lashed Stockton Beach and dunes, caused severe beach erosion and flooding to the camping areas.
“While beach driving was possible at low tide the camping area is taking longer than expected to naturally rehabilitate”, Mr Murphy said.
“At high tide some camping areas are still being inundated by sea water, and where some frontal dune remains the tides laps against the dune isolating these sites and physically prohibiting access”, he said.
“These safety issues associated access are something we cannot ignore and as a result we have been force to keep the camping area closed for the time being.
“The storms have really highlighted how important the frontal dune is in protecting the swale area from inundation, and it is important that we allow this dune to recover before we reopen the area to camping.
“There is 26km of beach front and over 400 hectares of sand driving opportunities in the Recreation Vehicle Area accessed via Lavis Lane.
“The dunes between the Anna Bay and Williamtown entrances remained closed to all vehicles.
“These areas contain Aboriginal cultural material which was uncovered by the storms, and is yet to be assessed.
“Visitors should also plan their trip to travel 2 hours either side of high tide, as erosion & drop offs remain along the beach, and it is likely the beach will become impassable and potentially dangerous at high tide.
“To help with the natural rehabilitation of the area, people are reminded to keep all vehicles off the frontal dune, high dunes and grasses and other plants.
“The rules are designed to protect the park and visitor safety and driving illegally in the dunes will not be tolerated and those caught can expect a fine.
“NPWS officers patrol beaches in the park to ensure that people driving on the beaches are not driving illegally on dunes and vegetated areas, including back tracks.”
For further information contact NPWS Hunter Region. Telephone 02 4984 8200.

[NissanGQ4.2]

And from what I have read on Rothy's Faceache page sounds like they are trying to close off the Wattagans!!! :(

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Roothy/179435648769911?fref=ts

STOCKTON MEET UP CHANGE!!! Due to major interest the meet up will now be at PITT STREET RESERVE, KING STREET, STOCKTON still at 9am for a leave at 11am Saturday 2 February- that's the Stockton Foreshore which I'm told is much bigger. GOOD THING WE NEED MORE ROOM EH???? I'm being interviewed on Radio 2HD by RICHARD KING tomorrow (tuesday) morning 7.20am about Stockton closures, there's a lot of normal Aussies pretty upset about their loss of basic rights.


STOCKTON - couple of things - we're fighting for the Wattagans tracks too, and the rest of Australia threatened by Parks - including the ocean! - you don't need anything, just show up - we will hopefully have stickers and sand flags for a small donation (gold coin maybe?) to keep the protest going and to show unity. See you there please!!!

[my third 256]

yeh that would be the reel reason
when do we get an aboriginal p.m.
These areas contain Aboriginal cultural material which was uncovered by the storms, and is yet to be assessed

[Steve4wdin]

Question, Aren`t the aboriginies selling the sand from Stockton?

[rusty_nail]

Question, Aren`t the aboriginies selling the sand from Stockton?

there is a sand mine in operation at the rear of the dune park near Lavis Lane so yeah i think your right mate.


And from what I have read on Rothy's Faceache page sounds like they are trying to close off the Wattagans!!! :(

i have seen the damage at the dunes in pics n that mate, but to close the wattagans would be terrible! its just about one of the only places left in and around the greater sydney region thats left for 4wders.

[ns3474]

there is a sand mine in operation at the rear of the dune park near Lavis Lane so yeah i think your right mate.
i think you will find that the sand mines have a lease or they are privatly owned,stockton beach is Worrimi land the traditional owners and run by national parks inconjunction with Worrimi land council.there is no camping at the moment due to large seas eroding the fore dunes,and i now the dunes size for driving is decreasing but the traditional owners have the right to allow what happens on the dunes .i can not see them closing the dunes all together ,its to good a money earner for them.


i have seen the damage at the dunes in pics n that mate, but to close the wattagans would be terrible! its just about one of the only places left in and around the greater sydney region thats left for 4wders.it would be a shame if they close the wattagans ,i have had too much fun there as a young bloke .The wattagans is part state forest,national parks and privatly own.But as usual it only takes one idiot dumping rubbish ,cutting down trees distroying the place to stuff it up for the rest of us.

[Morton]

yes there is one mine there in an area noone was allowed in anyway, it is Aboriginal land leased to Boral from memory, you can still play in the dunes & the front beach but cannot camp as all the camping areas including half of TinCity went under water in the June storm, the front beach has appx 20% left as it was washed away in the storm, it will recover in time but may take upto 12 months to fix itself, winter storms damage the beach, summer storms repair the beach but that was one mother of a storm in June & damage to the frontal dune was massive, South of Lavis Lane was hit hard & it uncovered many aboriginal artefacts etc, the swale areas (behind the frontal dune) were washed away as well. Cant wait to camp there again, just love waking to the sound of crashing waves in the morning.

As for the Wattagans, the new gates being fitted are part of a Plan of Management that was agreed to in 2009 & partially implemented in the last 12 months, the gates are to shut only when the tracks are affected by rain water & they dont want every Bill & Bob in there churning the tracks & stuffing for everybody else who doesnt own a comp truck, on Roothys facebook page it showed a pic of an track blocked by tree & boulders etc & saying this is what NPWS does to these tracks themselves when in fact that pic is from a track in the State forest section, misinformation was the big issue here, the rally did nothing for both areas, infact the Wattagans wasnt hardly mentioned when it was what the rally really was all about originally, Watagans doesnt sell magazines I suppose, many diillussioned & upset people after all of that, alot of my mates went to the rally, not one of them come back happy, many p^^sed with the totally unorganised organisers, the only winner on the day was the fuel companies, go figure hey

[P4trol]

yeh that would be the reel reason
when do we get an aboriginal p.m.
These areas contain Aboriginal cultural material which was uncovered by the storms, and is yet to be assessed

Aka middens - or rubbish piles.

[macca]

This whole thing seems a beat up, 5000 vehicles turned up way more than the expected 1500 so organising would have become a nightmare.
Of those 5000 how many are actual 4 wheel drivers? And how many have been to Stockton and seen what it is all about.
That sand mine is to the south of Lavis lane where the area is open and is basically a free for all to have fun how you like. There are some restrictions like not driving on middens, vegetation and the quad bike area.
As for the camping area being closed, who wants to camp in an area where a large wave could inundate your camp and all the damage that goes with it?
To the north it is basically only the beach area that is open to the public, back from there is Aborigional land that is closed at this time.
We spoke to an Aborigional bloke and he told us they were fed up with National Parks collecting fees and not putting any thing back to the area or its people. How would you feel if you leased your property to a business that collects fees but doesnt pay for the lease?
That was his story on the day we were in the restricted area, he showed us the way back to the beach and appologised to us for his people using us as pawns to pressure National Parks. We were in full support of their stand.
I for one support the closure of Stockton as it is now untill nature returns the area to be able to be fully used again. I also support the Worrimi people taking a stand against the National Parks.
I do not support that magazine and what it stands for. If they backed the Worrimi People that would get my support.
They have been in our area shooting videos and asking our 4WD club to assist, they didnt get any from me!!!!

[ns3474]

dont let the truth getting in the way of a good story.my understanding is that the money collected by national parks go`s back to the land council as well as inproving access and the employment of the aboriginal staff that work for national parks.these staff are members of the worrimi land council

[macca]

dont let the truth getting in the way of a good story.my understanding is that the money collected by national parks go`s back to the land council as well as inproving access and the employment of the aboriginal staff that work for national parks.these staff are members of the worrimi land council

There was an Aboriginal Ranger on the beach that day with a non Aboriginal "assistant" who was doing all the work! checking beach permits was all she did!!!
As you say the wages come from fees collected, from what I see of NP the money goes to their coffers first and distribution has no reflection of where the income came from. (e.g. South West Rocks)
Please understand I have no respect or liking of NP in our area they are not there for the people of Australia, as a 4WDer and camper they leave a lot to be desired.
In the years I have been going to Stockton I can not say I have noticed a lot of change to the access but I'm not there for the drive in either. The guy on the dunes that day sounded genuine but he may well have been "grinding his axe".

[ns3474]

point taken

[ns3474]

and i think you will find like alll government agencies,the money goes back to the government not the NP pocket

[Morton]

Macca, your last statement may be a bit more on the money than you know, Stockton is controlled by 2 Aboriginal interests, NPWS have control of a small section of the entire beach, they are answerable to one of these entities only, not the government, it is the only agreement reached in Australia where this is the case, some elders are part of both entities but only a small amount of them, there is apparently some disagreement on how different sections are handled but NPWS has no say in it, all monies raised goes back in the beach & the land owners pockets, simple fact, the area the tour quides go into is Aboriginal land owned & controlled by one of the entities, NPWS is not involved in the area at all, alot of misinformation is splashed about in regards to Stockton & Watagans

[macca]

Thanks Morton, it seems the arguments are more factional than factual.

Add uninformed but passionate editorial to the story and it gets more twists of untruths and deception than a chinese whisper.

[NissanGQ4.2]

I wonder how long it is before we lose Stockton Beach altogether :(

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1813521/port-mayors-sand-mine-approved/

[BigRAWesty]

Yea was reading that.. Something is very sus. The mayor has interests in it and by the sounds of it some big named lawyers are swooping to take the case On against the council and mining company..