60 litre tropical rated camper fridges

[muletopia]

The web has many threads , most of which throw more heat than light, on the subject of small camper fridges. There are success and failure stories for both 3 way absorbtion fidges and compressor fridges. I would like to track down a 3 way TROPICAL rated fridge no more than 500mm wide. Any ideas?
Thanks
Muletopia

[Stropp]

Try looking at trailblaza great fidge but you may need a smaller one as they have 3" foam insulation around them, mine is about 25 yrs old and still good although it is very big.

[Maxhead]

The web has many threads , most of which throw more heat than light, on the subject of small camper fridges. There are success and failure stories for both 3 way absorbtion fidges and compressor fridges. I would like to track down a 3 way TROPICAL rated fridge no more than 500mm wide. Any ideas?
Thanks
Muletopia

You could have a look at the Dometic fridge in 60L :http://www.dometic.com/enau/Asia-Pacific/Australia/Product-ranges/RV/Refrigerators/Products/?productdataid=68387

Under 500mm wide. You will need to purchase their tropical fan kit as the fridge itself is not tropical. We have a bigger version and are more then happy with it. Works great on gas & 240v. 12V is more for travelling and will not cool food/beers down but will keep cold while travelling. Gas is most efficient.

[threedogs]

X 2 with Stropp Trailblazer and Nation Luna would be 2 best 12V jobs on market 3" insulation ,Great fridges , that the prices will reflect.
Nothing wrong with Engel or Waceo but not many work in high humidity, I'd be ringing ARB Darwin or similar to find out what works and what don't

[muletopia]

You could have a look at the Dometic fridge in 60L :http://www.dometic.com/enau/Asia-Pacific/Australia/Product-ranges/RV/Refrigerators/Products/?productdataid=68387

Under 500mm wide. You will need to purchase their tropical fan kit as the fridge itself is not tropical. We have a bigger version and are more then happy with it. Works great on gas & 240v. 12V is more for travelling and will not cool food/beers down but will keep cold while travelling. Gas is most efficient.

Thanks Nisshead,
I was unaware of the "tropical fan kit" for these fridges,how much extra space do they take?
I guess that they push air up the back of the fridge so that correct installation with baffles and side insulation and sealing is required. Words of advice would be appreciated.
Muletopia

[muletopia]

Thanks Stropp,
I had a look at Trailblaza fridges, as they are compressor fridges and are fairly wide I will look a little harder for a 3 way job
Cheers
Muletopia

[Maxhead]

Thanks Nisshead,
I was unaware of the "tropical fan kit" for these fridges,how much extra space do they take?
I guess that they push air up the back of the fridge so that correct installation with baffles and side insulation and sealing is required. Words of advice would be appreciated.
Muletopia

I think the kit is just a fan, thermistor or a pyro. The fan kicks in when the temp on the condenser gets to a certain temp. From memory I think the fan draws the hot air out. I didn't install it as Jayco installed it in the factory, but I know it was a separate kit to turn it into a tropical rating. I will see if I still have the install instructions in the caravan.

I only remember it kicking in once beginning of this year on a trip when it was around 36 deg.

[threedogs]

Look at fan first. I've updated my 94 Engel to their turbo spec model with fan up grade from Jaycar, Just back from a very humid weekend on the Murray with no issuses at all.
Long time ago but its only like a computer fan, find the specs and match it might save a whole heap of $$$$ you never know.

[muletopia]

I think the kit is just a fan, thermistor or a pyro. The fan kicks in when the temp on the condenser gets to a certain temp. From memory I think the fan draws the hot air out. I didn't install it as Jayco installed it in the factory, but I know it was a separate kit to turn it into a tropical rating. I will see if I still have the install instructions in the caravan.

I only remember it kicking in once beginning of this year on a trip when it was around 36 deg.

Good on you Nisshead,
That is sounding promising, if you can find the install instructions that would be great.
Cheers
Muletopia

[threedogs]

My fan cools down compressor/condensor,,once covers are off there is nothing to look at. easy to replace the fan

[muletopia]

My fan cools down compressor/condensor,,once covers are off there is nothing to look at. easy to replace the fan

Ta Threedogs,
The fans sound simple, but I think that the Dometic tropical fan kit includes a temperature sensor on the cooling fins.
Muletopia

[Maxhead]

Good on you Nisshead,
That is sounding promising, if you can find the install instructions that would be great.
Cheers
Muletopia

Ok Here's the instructions. They are very basic and don't give too much away.

Let me know how you go and if you need photos of the install let me know...no dramas.

[muletopia]

Ok Here's the instructions. They are very basic and don't give too much away.

Let me know how you go and if you need photos of the install let me know...no dramas.

Hello Nisshead,
I tried to download the ventillator kit pdf file. The download faild in both Ubuntu 12.04 and Windows 7. Would you try again please.
Cheers
Muletopia

[lorrieandjas]

Hi muletopia - worked OK for me using a Mac and Chrome and Safari.

Jas

[Maxhead]

Hello Nisshead,
I tried to download the ventillator kit pdf file. The download faild in both Ubuntu 12.04 and Windows 7. Would you try again please.
Cheers
Muletopia

Here's a link to my google docs https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7nX3xbcPbItRzUzVFdSZlFwS3c

[muletopia]

Here's a link to my google docs https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7nX3xbcPbItRzUzVFdSZlFwS3c

Ta Nisshead,
received that and printed it OK
thanks
Muletopia

[Cuppa]

Hi Muletopia,
Like Solar vs gennies, compressor vs 3 way is a classic area of disagreement, myth & misunderstanding. Following are my thoughts on the matter.

My view is that if you plan to spend much time in northern parts in summer that you would be making a mistake to go down the three way path. Although you will find plenty of folks who will stick up for their choice of 3 way I have over the years developed a picture from the reports of others that they just struggle too much when the heat is really on. I have had one cope with 40 degree temps for a week on the Murray (albeit with additional fans jury rigged to help out), but have heard of plenty of folks despairing in similar conditions up north. Short term use is quite different to that of long term travelling. Compressor fridge freezers may not be perfect, but they do work better at the higher extremes of temperature. You read of folk changing from 3 way to compressor, but rarely, if ever, the other way around. There is also the issue of how well the 3 way fridges work if not parked level. In the past anything over 3 degrees off level would result in the 3 ways defrosting. Modern ones have improved a bit & now 6 degrees is the figure. Mostly this is easy to achieve, but must always be considered, not an issue with compressors. If running on 12v whilst driving (& although some drive with the fridge running on gas it is dangerous) some method of changing over to gas (memory or automatic) must be employed to avoid the risk of flattening batteries. They draw a lot more current on 12v than compressor fridges. Buying gas is a consideration which must be made, especially if planning to spend significant time in remote areas. A 9kg bottle costing anything from $20 to $45 to refill will last most fridge users on average around 10 to 12 days. Swap & go bottles are notorious for being of lesser quality than the good bottles you start off with, & refills are often not available. Carrying a spare bottle gives you a time limit of around 3 weeks between gas buying.... may be enough for some, but certainly not for me. In our bus where gas is only used for the stove (including oven) a 3.7kg bottle lasts between 6 to 8 weeks (depending upon how much the oven is used), so with one spare we have a buffer of conservatively 3 months , enough to not have to return to 'civilisation' just to get gas usually allows us the option of waiting until we are somewhere with cheaper prices before refilling.

Trailblaza, whilst IMO the best portable fridges available (a function of having more insulation than any other manufacturer) will be unlikely to fit your size requirement but plenty of other portable compressor fridges will. (Eg. My 60l ARB fridge is 450mm wide). Different styles of lid opening can make the difference to how useable a fridge is in a particular position,

I said eralier that low voltage compressor fridges aren't perfect, by which I mean they are simply not as good as the fridges we are accustomed to in our homes - they take a bit more management. This is a function of both being powered by limited low voltage supplies compared to 'unlimited & cheap' mains power, & also of compromise in many units which utilise the same thermostat for both fridge & freezer. (This latter is the main reason I have chosen to go with separate fridge & freezer in the Patrol)

Whether 3 way or compressor - the most economical & efficient fridge freezers will be those with smaller capacity & thicker insulation. Unfortunately most of us are restricted in the space that we have & the manufactuers know this, so provide us with what we want, even though they know their products would work much better, & use far less gas/power if they used thicker insulation. Most of us dont't want huge boxes with tiny storage space inside though.

Cuppa

[muletopia]

Hi Muletopia,
Like Solar vs gennies, compressor vs 3 way is a classic area of disagreement, myth & misunderstanding. Following are my thoughts on the matter.

My view is that if you plan to spend much time in northern parts in summer that you would be making a mistake to go down the three way path. Although you will find plenty of folks who will stick up for their choice of 3 way I have over the years developed a picture from the reports of others that they just struggle too much when the heat is really on. I have had one cope with 40 degree temps for a week on the Murray (albeit with additional fans jury rigged to help out), but have heard of plenty of folks despairing in similar conditions up north. Short term use is quite different to that of long term travelling. Compressor fridge freezers may not be perfect, but they do work better at the higher extremes of temperature. You read of folk changing from 3 way to compressor, but rarely, if ever, the other way around. There is also the issue of how well the 3 way fridges work if not parked level. In the past anything over 3 degrees off level would result in the 3 ways defrosting. Modern ones have improved a bit & now 6 degrees is the figure. Mostly this is easy to achieve, but must always be considered, not an issue with compressors. If running on 12v whilst driving (& although some drive with the fridge running on gas it is dangerous) some method of changing over to gas (memory or automatic) must be employed to avoid the risk of flattening batteries. They draw a lot more current on 12v than compressor fridges. Buying gas is a consideration which must be made, especially if planning to spend significant time in remote areas. A 9kg bottle costing anything from $20 to $45 to refill will last most fridge users on average around 10 to 12 days. Swap & go bottles are notorious for being of lesser quality than the good bottles you start off with, & refills are often not available. Carrying a spare bottle gives you a time limit of around 3 weeks between gas buying.... may be enough for some, but certainly not for me. In our bus where gas is only used for the stove (including oven) a 3.7kg bottle lasts between 6 to 8 weeks (depending upon how much the oven is used), so with one spare we have a buffer of conservatively 3 months , enough to not have to return to 'civilisation' just to get gas usually allows us the option of waiting until we are somewhere with cheaper prices before refilling.

Trailblaza, whilst IMO the best portable fridges available (a function of having more insulation than any other manufacturer) will be unlikely to fit your size requirement but plenty of other portable compressor fridges will. (Eg. My 60l ARB fridge is 450mm wide). Different styles of lid opening can make the difference to how useable a fridge is in a particular position,

I said eralier that low voltage compressor fridges aren't perfect, by which I mean they are simply not as good as the fridges we are accustomed to in our homes - they take a bit more management. This is a function of both being powered by limited low voltage supplies compared to 'unlimited & cheap' mains power, & also of compromise in many units which utilise the same thermostat for both fridge & freezer. (This latter is the main reason I have chosen to go with separate fridge & freezer in the Patrol)

Whether 3 way or compressor - the most economical & efficient fridge freezers will be those with smaller capacity & thicker insulation. Unfortunately most of us are restricted in the space that we have & the manufactuers know this, so provide us with what we want, even though they know their products would work much better, & use far less gas/power if they used thicker insulation. Most of us dont't want huge boxes with tiny storage space inside though.

Cuppa

Hello Cuppa,
Well lots of reading on friges and camper electrics. As you say much discussion of cpmpressor and 3 way fridges. The smallest tropical rated 3 way fridge is too big to fit in the camper. The best compressor fridges at around 60 lites are all chest freezers and the only place we could put it would be under a bed. Not an ideal site.
Upright compressor fridges to fit are Vitrifrigo. These do not, in general, have a good review.
The 60 litre 3 way that fits can be had with a tropical fan kit, auto switching from a bimetal strip on the rear of the fridge and a maximum efficiency flue kit. We also have space to add 25mm of insulation all round.

Costs: the set up cost for the compressor fridge is by far the greater. It needs substantial batteries and controller/charger and either a large ammount of solar panels or a generator. The latter is not attractive.
Once set up the running costs of the three way is certainly greater, our experience a 9KG
gas bottle lasts about 10 days.

So, at this stage assuming that we go north only rarely I am inclined towards the 3 way.

Cheers
Muletopia

[Cuppa]

Horses for courses ( or should that be mules for tracks?). :) Sounds like your research has enabled you to reach an informed decision.

Just one thing though ;) a comment on the process of fitting out a bus.
I may be reading things wrong, but if you have sorted out the whole layout right down to the precise size for the fridge space already might I suggest that it is still early days & there is every chance you may change a few things along the way. Fitting out a vehicle like this was described to me as being a 3D jigsaw. If one thing changes, it changes everything else. It can make it very tempting to lock in to a particular layout, but longer term will be happiest if you can maintain flexibilty now, no matter how tempting it is to reach a point where you know what the plan is & just get on with it.

Although it takes extra time & effort, fitting the interior out as a cardboard mock up can be very helpful, if not essential. Great ideas can often be revealed to be impractical when viewed in 3d. In a vehicle designed for living in for extended periods getting it right to suit YOUR needs is vital or it'll drive you nuts. Look at the RV market & you'll always come across a number of recently completed conversions for sale because once completed their compromises didn't suit the builders dreams ...... & compromises are inevitable in every fit out. The accepted wisdom in the RV scene is that very few get their conversion 'right' until the 2nd or 3rd attempt. With all of the help from experienced folk I received online when building ours I feel I got things about 90% right for us. ....... which I reckon it is about as good a percentage as anyone can reasonably expect.

I hope you don't mind me making such comments, I'm not trying to be a 'know it all' but rather just trying to share some of the wisdom imparted to me by others over the years. The forum where I learned most has unfortunately closed down, a result of political shenanigans between the forum members & the organisation that auspiced it, but a fresh (private) one has started up in the past few weeks. How it will pan out we will have to wait & see, but if you would like details please contact me off forum. It is populated by folks with a great deal of experience in both diy conversions, bought motorhomes & travelling around Australia.

Cuppa.

[muletopia]

Horses for courses ( or should that be mules for tracks?). :) Sounds like your research has enabled you to reach an informed decision.

Just one thing though ;) a comment on the process of fitting out a bus.
I may be reading things wrong, but if you have sorted out the whole layout right down to the precise size for the fridge space already might I suggest that it is still early days & there is every chance you may change a few things along the way. Fitting out a vehicle like this was described to me as being a 3D jigsaw. If one thing changes, it changes everything else. It can make it very tempting to lock in to a particular layout, but longer term will be happiest if you can maintain flexibilty now, no matter how tempting it is to reach a point where you know what the plan is & just get on with it.

Although it takes extra time & effort, fitting the interior out as a cardboard mock up can be very helpful, if not essential. Great ideas can often be revealed to be impractical when viewed in 3d. In a vehicle designed for living in for extended periods getting it right to suit YOUR needs is vital or it'll drive you nuts. Look at the RV market & you'll always come across a number of recently completed conversions for sale because once completed their compromises didn't suit the builders dreams ...... & compromises are inevitable in every fit out. The accepted wisdom in the RV scene is that very few get their conversion 'right' until the 2nd or 3rd attempt. With all of the help from experienced folk I received online when building ours I feel I got things about 90% right for us. ....... which I reckon it is about as good a percentage as anyone can reasonably expect.

I hope you don't mind me making such comments, I'm not trying to be a 'know it all' but rather just trying to share some of the wisdom imparted to me by others over the years. The forum where I learned most has unfortunately closed down, a result of political shenanigans between the forum members & the organisation that auspiced it, but a fresh (private) one has started up in the past few weeks. How it will pan out we will have to wait & see, but if you would like details please contact me off forum. It is populated by folks with a great deal of experience in both diy conversions, bought motorhomes & travelling around Australia.

Cuppa.
Hello Cuppa,
I'm relaxed about all sorts of suggestions, one would not go out asking otherwise, so thanks.
Chers
Muletopia

[Waza]

A caravan wrecker would have plenty of 3 way front opening door fridge freezers, my van has one and it's over 20yrs old, & still awesome. Just a different direction to search that might be fruitful & heaps cheaper.

Cheers

[muletopia]

A caravan wrecker would have plenty of 3 way front opening door fridge freezers, my van has one and it's over 20yrs old, & still awesome. Just a different direction to search that might be fruitful & heaps cheaper.

Cheers

Thanks Waza,
Had not thought of that approach, will try
Cheers
Muletopia

[muletopia]

Well folks
We could not find a tropical rated 60 litre fridge. The smallest tropical rated 3 way fridge is too big to fit in our camper. So we have bought a tropical rated 80 litre upright compressor fridge. This means that we will need to upgrade our camper's two 75 ah flooded cell bateries to two 120ah AGM batteries. That will allow a day off mains (4 amp draw for the fridge). After that 400 watts of solar panels will be needed for electrical self sufficiency. As one of our forum posters says "such is life". At least our gas bill will be small!
Thank you all for your suggestions.
Muletopia

[the evil twin]

Well folks
We could not find a tropical rated 60 litre fridge. The smallest tropical rated 3 way fridge is too big to fit in our camper. So we have bought a tropical rated 80 litre upright compressor fridge. This means that we will need to upgrade our camper's two 75 ah flooded cell bateries to two 120ah AGM batteries. That will allow a day off mains (4 amp draw for the fridge). After that 400 watts of solar panels will be needed for electrical self sufficiency. As one of our forum posters says "such is life". At least our gas bill will be small!
Thank you all for your suggestions.
Muletopia

Hiya,

400 Watts... Holy Cow!

What else are you running

The 4 amps will be when the fridge is running. Given a duty cycle of 25% to maybe 33% thats less than 40 AH per 24 hours draw down.
You will get heaps more than a day off mains/solar and even 200 watts of Solar will keep the batteries topped up on a standard solar day.

I run two 40 Engels and used to have a CF80 and I have twin 100 AH Full River batteries. I run one battery on alternate trips (keep the other in reserve) on 100 watts of Solar panels and the battery is always as close to full SOC by lunch to mid afternoon as makes no matter.

[NP99]

I ordered a 60litre from here -

http://www.techniice.com/car-fridges-1.html