4wding with Auto Transmission.

[Simmo]

Hi All, just a quick question, apologies for it being simple but would be good to know.

I have a friend who is coming away with us camping in a couple of weeks.

He hasn't been offroad a hell of a lot and we are heading to some spots that can get a little tricky.

Medium rock/hill climbing and a couple of places can get quite steep when coming into the river flats.

Also I remember some areas in the flats that have some deep boggy tracks too.

Moral of the story is, he has a stock auto landcruiser 80 series and I must admit I have never been offroad using an Auto transmission.

Does anyone here have an auto or done some 4x4ing in one?

Is there any secrets to climbing or descending down steep hills and powering through deep boggy tracks?

Do the autos hold the gears well when descending on steep hills and muddy tracks?

I'm just a little bit paranoid taking this friend but want to make sure I give him good advice.

Thanks for your help.

[the evil twin]

....

Does anyone here have an auto or done some 4x4ing in one?

Is there any secrets to climbing or descending down steep hills and powering through deep boggy tracks?

Do the autos hold the gears well when descending on steep hills and muddy tracks?



Two Patrols ago I had an auto and grew to love it. I did have a Torque Converter Lockup Switch fitted tho, which meant I could lock the TC when I needed too and it was a big help.

Most Autos are geared 1 up from manuals IE in the GQ's 1st in an Auto is similar drive ratios to 2nd in a Manual so keep that in mind.

Climbing is pretty much straight the same in either transmission and maybe the auto is more forgiving if you get the wrong gaer 'cause you can change without too many issues.

Descending is an 'art form' and is IMHO the only time a Manual far outshines an auto (until you put crawler gears and a TC lock up in and then Auto's kick butt).

Best way to descend a steep slippery downslope in a stock auto is really s.l.o.w.l.y in Low Range 1st and drag a bit of handbrake on... the handbrake acts equally thru the drive train instead of your foot brake which acts thru the brake proportioning valve and you may get lock ups on the "lightest" wheel/s.

After a while I had fitted a front locker and a TC lockup and my old girl was brilliant at climbs, better than any manual, and not too shabby at descents... almost as good as a manual but not quite

Hope that makes sense... and... others may disagree or have different methods

[Mark]

I did have a Torque Converter Lockup Switch fitted tho, which meant I could lock the TC when I needed too and it was a big help.

My mate had this on his auto and sweared by it too!


Descending is an 'art form' and is IMHO the only time a Manual far outshines an auto

Agreed 100% Artform....I've been down some pretty hairy descents and sometimes the only way to get out of trouble was to quickly crank into second otherwise I would've slid off some scary ridges. Have to be on the ball.

[Timbo]

Slippery down hill track make my arse grab the seat. I'm not a fan of them.
Most experienced 4wd'ers will tell you to stay in the ruts, and if the wheels start sliding, gives the accelerator a bit of a blip and she'll most likely pull into line.

Even though both tips have worked for me, using the accelerator down a slippery track still worries me haha.

[GQ10]

Slippery down hill track make my arse grab the seat. I'm not a fan of them.

haha....If I'm a pasenger, my left foot seems to push down on the floor. I actually put a hole in my old mates Sierra....It was pretty rusted out from 4 million beer spills though...haha

[White_GU]

Haven't quite done anything that hairy myself lol.. I just like flat tracks for now.

I've always wondered about auto's. Logic tells me that they would be smoother and easier to manage, allowing more concentration on driving but I always thought going down hill would be harder than going up. Didn't know you could get a torque converter locker... jeez things they do these days.

[Pitbull]

Having been a manual 4wd owner for many years i could not imagine myself ever having an auto 4wd , however as a member of 4wd S.A's DTU i began driving auto's at the Adelaide 4wd show and other members auto's at our skill updates and thought they were'nt too bad .
Having been patient and looking around for a while for a GQ i came across the one owner 97 TI TB42E with auto trans and too good a condition not to buy it even though i wanted a manual .

Up to date its done everything offroad effortlessly and the auto is much better in the sand than a manual , engine braking on steep down hill decents is the only time the brakes are used more as engine braking especially with the petrol is not as good although good enough , and this improved when i fitted the 4.375 ratio over the 3.9 .
Some petrol autos have excellent engine braking like the V6 Hilux so it comes down to ratios



With the auto its important to use a full synthetic ATF and fit the largest trans cooler you can find .

In general it does all offroad obstacles easier than a manual

cheers

[the evil twin]

.... Up to date its done everything offroad effortlessly and the auto is much better in the sand than a manual , engine braking on steep down hill decents is the only time the brakes are used more as engine braking especially with the petrol is not as good although good enough , and this improved when i fitted the 4.375 ratio over the 3.9 .


.... In general it does all offroad obstacles easier than a manual



Put a Torque Converter Lock up switch in it (costs about $30 to buy the bits or you can buy Kits for a bit more) so you can select the switch and energise the TC Lock up solenoid when you need it and that will give you a significant amount of extra engine braking as well... my TB42 had 4.1 diffs and 33's and was pretty good down hill with the TC locked

...and, you are correct, the Auto's kill the Manuals in 95% of 4WD situations esp if they are tricked up a bit in the Valve Bodies (but you'll never get the Manual Diehards to admit it)... Wholesale Automatics have a fantastic Valve Body Upgrade for the GQ's and one was going in mine but I ended up buying Diesel

For you Auto fiends... these guys are fantastic IMHO

http://www.automatictransmission.com.au/

[patch697]

Got a mate with a 80 series tojo with an auto as well with nothing more than 2" lift & 33s & he go's everywhere I go wet or dry. We have some hard going 4WDriving out my way & I have to say its ether mine or his that do most all the recovery work in the group.

He even had to tow me one day after I did a slave cylinder & the CB was a wash with s**t slinging that day. But the following week he did a timing gear & it was my turn to do the towing.

I told him on the day that even God loves Patrol's & this was he's pennants for the sins he committed over the CD last week end. Needless he told me I could go get....

[Simmo]

Great replies everyone, thanks.

I feel a bit more confident taking this guy away now. lol

Might just take it easy for a while and not attempt anything crazy until he is a bit more confident too.

Cheers.

[Minx]

Hey Simmo, remember to deflate your tyres down to around 18psi too! This is very important for added traction in bogs, mud, rocks, etc. If you leave your tyres at road pressures you'll have all sorts of traction trouble and will damage the tracks a lot more too. It may sound weird if you haven't done much 4x4ing but trust me it helps enormously.

Yep, makes a huge difference Plasnart, agree 100%

[the evil twin]

Wow... I never go down to 18 unless I am heading for soft sand. On gravel your vehicle will handle like a dog and on rocks and ruts you are starting to get into bead popping territory or at least getting crap in under there and out in the boonies you are making the sidewalls more vulnerable to getting staked.

Soft Sand I agree 18 isn't bad to start with and keep on dropping if things get gnarly, indeed, I have been down to 12 BUT you need to go real easy and put some air back in as soon as you are out of the poo

Manuf pressure recommendations and indeed I have found them to be pretty good for my Cooper Discoverer (33 x 10.5) are MINIMUM (go higher for loaded truck)
Gravel - 32 PSI
Rough Gravel - 26 PSI
Rocks - 22 PSI
Mud - 22 PSI
Sand - 18 PSI

Ran similar pressures in my Pro Comps and never had a hint of trouble, only time I have ever popped a bead was when I was running 18 PSI in a set of Desert Duellers on mixed mud and gravel and popped a bead negotiating a rut

[YNOT]

My current Patrol is an auto where my previous Patrols have been manuals. From my experience the auto makes it a lot easier to ease the car slowly over rocks and through difficult sections of track, where a manual would see you slipping the clutch a lot and bouncing the car around. Down hill like the others have said is the downfall of the standard auto, the hand brake does get a bit of a work out. My Patrol has twin lockers, and I often engage at least one of them on steep decents for a bit more control.

I agree with Plasnart about tyres with lower pressures being less likely to get staked. Think of a balloon, blow it up hard and press it against a sharp object-BANG. Now try the same thing with a half inflated balloon, it moulds around the object and is less likley to get punctured. For me, 25psi off road and keep the speed down. Will drop my pressures lower if the terrain requires it.

Tony

[the evil twin]

G'day ET,

IMO the more deflection you have in the tyre the less likely you are to push something through it. Plenty of people don't understand or believe this, but the harder the tyres are the easier they get staked.


Nah, thats cool.. everyone has a different way of looking at things. My view is that due to the construction of LT tyres with square shoulders it is the tyre pressure that keeps the side walls squared up and out of harms way, the lower the pressure the further out the wall is and waiting to get staked by sharp rocks, sticks etc especially when the tread squirms as you steer

But I am first and foremost an advocate of each to their own, some of my fellow Clubbies run their tyres lower than me, some higher and you won't get any arguments on personal choices.

I used to run lower pressures some time back but when I changed to Pro Comps a very knolwedgeable Comp Driver put me onto similar pressures above. Now, I simply run mine at the pressures recommended by Cooper Tyres... seems to work OK for the me.

[AB]

Exactly ET. The right pressure for YOUR tyres is the pressure YOU want to run them at. If I make a mistake, or you make a mistake, we'll learn from that and adjust accordingly. Just wanted to give Simmo a heads up that it would be beneficial to drop his and his mates pressures rather than flogging along on road pressures. He can decide what he wants to do with that advice.

Exactly x2. There will always be the basic rule of thumb with everything but It's also good to know what tweaking and ideas others have and tried.

It may not be right in your situation/experience but if it works for you then stick with it, regardless of what other's say.

[patch697]

Simmo you started this thread with concerns about your mates auto 80 sires being up to the task which I don't think will be an issue as ALTHOUGH ITS NOT A PATROL ( & you might want to have a word to him about that...lol...) thay are still a very capable vehicle non the less.

You also have some concerns about his lack of experience with off roading so I was thinking it might be a good idea (if you have the time) to take him out before you head off on your trip & teach him some off road skills. This will help build his confidence & also give him a chance to see just what his 4WD can do & might just make the difference so your trip away will be an enjoyable one for all.

Cheers
Paul

[twisty]

take him out before you head off on your trip & teach him some off road skills. This will help build his confidence & also give him a chance to see just what his 4WD can do & might just make the difference so your trip away will be an enjoyable one for all.

Cheers
Paul

Thanks Paul. Best advice yet.

As a beginner knowing what my 4x4 is capable of and what I'm prepared to try are VITAL. Always learning, always watching.

[04OFF]

Agree with everyone about tyre pressure, more important than what pressure you let tyres down to for off road ,is remember to make sure you have some way of pumping your tyres back up, otherwise it may be a long slow drive to get a servo !



Autos are the best..........much much easier for guys who want to eat maccas, talk on the phone, use the uhf, light a smoke, drink beer............cos the mrs can drive it easy (ha-ha)

[Bigrig]

Fit a set of reduction gears to counteract the downhill runaway and you'll never go back to a manual again - first auto I've ever had out of 6 fourbies and I'll never be going back either!! Easier all round, more controlled, and makes for less damage/risk in tackling harder stuff ...

[cliff]

I totally agree with everything, I love my auto. Its easier to mash the brakes to get the LSD to work better too!