recovery points

[team grandpa]

hello
is the hook on the drivers side that is bolted to chassis,is that rated as a recovery point.
also i have a nissan bar on the front with the holes in it for d shakle to fit can these be used for recovery as well
just askin

ta neil

[threedogs]

Hi again Neil, What you are referring to will break or straighten, it has no rating.
Not sure what you're saying about the OE bar. Pic is what will replace your hook and
very strong, these are the originals not copies. and rated. Didn't you get my PM??

[macca]

Those holes on the bar are for attaching a HiLift jack, with an adaptor so I was told.

Got some of threedogs recovery points, they are the real thing.

You wont have an issue with his gear.

[Silver]

This is a fascinating topic, and there are quite a few threads on here - I use the search function rather than wait for people to send a new response. Make a cuppa and put the feet up is my advice if all the info available here :-) There are also some manuals etc attached.

I use threedogs plates on my Mav. They are very substantial. While they sit fairly low on my Mav, there are other components that set the front approach angle, and I need them that low to get the straps out without rubbing too much on the factory alloy bar.

There are a couple of messages I came away with:

-The person that has to be happy is the person with the vehicle doing the snatching. If they aren't happy with the set up on the snatched vehicle, they shouldn't snatch.

- Most don't seem to like the front hook that comes on the GQ/Mav. Nor the rear loop.

-Depending on the bog, spade work will make the snatch a lot easier on components.

-Snatch straps have become real powerhouses now - years ago, 2 tonnes, now you can get 15 tonners. Apparently for heavy 4wheelers in touring rig with a trailer. The recommendation for my Mav is currently 8 tonnes. Is that breaking strain or some other rating?

- a bridle can be used to share loads across both chassis rails. EvilTwin I think put up a cracker of a post on bridles and how to use them. The longer the bridle, the better, from memory, and don't use a shackle to connect the snatch strap to the bridle. Thread it through the loop.

- at the rear, never use a tow ball. Most are unhappy with 'that' loop on the rear step.

-many people are happy with the hayman reece style receiver - there is controversy about whether the 16mm pin is up to the job, or it is necessary to use a dedicated fitting that goes into the receiver. I personally am happy with the plain pin that Hayman Reece etc sell, but would probably not use the locking pin that I bought to stop the tongue from being stolen. The steel in that locking pin is a bit of an unknown quality.... While I am happy to use the pin, to ensure that the snatcher is happy, I also have a bar and shackle arrangement for those who like that system :-)

- people have been killed by failure of the welds in the short tongue used in receiver hitches, due to unknown corrosion of welds inside the hitch.

Cheers, and apologies that this went beyond your question, I think :-)

[threedogs]

I like your 1st point, would hate to wear a hook ,what ever, just because other person had dodgey equipment.
Heres an option for the rear, Dont make the hook one anymore, other is strong as and would benefit
from some extra bracing across that rear chassis section, this'll fit GQ/GU all model.
Really need as you say to think recoveries through, far too easy for it to go pearshaped.

[BigRAWesty]

The hook bolted to your chassis (although not rated) is more than capable of handling a snatch out.
It's 20mm steel... As a rigger I'd say good for 10T.
But as for the bull bar plates, I wouldn't use them. Just to be sure.


Sent from a device which doesn't always agree with my thumbs...

[threedogs]

big westy this is going over old ground a bit, dont take this the wrong way, you say about 10t
but a lot of GQ have rusted chassis, yes they are good to recover from, ,,,BUT<<< they will break as in snap
and they will straighten. Plus wouldn't think insurance Co.s would cover it, Which bit is 20mm ???
Got a pic?

And Silver your 8000kg rating should mean the strap is good for 8000kg and will break at any time after that.
hard to figure out when you have applied 8000kg pressure hey, but 12,000kg and take your time.
recoveries have never been a race or timed event, use an old blanket/dampener or coat over it as you would with
winch cable. should be a recovery section with only Golden Rules on it. I'll talk to AB when he gets back.
just to exclude towball recoveries from any scenario, I do this for a living So dont like hearing of injuries or damage

[BigRAWesty]

It's a factory fitted recovery point. It would be covered.
But yes I do agree you have to take into consideration condition of hook, bolts and chassis.
I'd happily snatch all day off mine as I know the condition of my equipment and it's looked after.
Yes I'll grab a pick tonight just to confirm were talking about the same gear.


Sent from a device which doesn't always agree with my thumbs...

[threedogs]

That flat plate with the round hook welded to it is for flat towing on bitumen roads only from memory.
Not up to your guts recoveries out in the bush I'll go check my manual.
Three holes with captive nuts on RHS and just the holes on the LHS

[BigRAWesty]

Also your snatch strap rated at 8T is its safe working load.
They work on the same principle as lifting gear. The stated weight is a safe weight, they will take more than that, but the risk of breaking increases to much to be a "safe" product


Sent from a device which doesn't always agree with my thumbs...

[BigRAWesty]

Sorry here is the hook
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2012/10/29.jpg
I know most would think otherwise, but after getting into the rigging I'm very confident in using it.

Sent from a device which doesn't always agree with my thumbs...

[threedogs]

Yeah thats what I was thinking, welds are suss, you can re weld them but they will straighten or snap, I've seen it heaps of times.
Plus the used it heaps of times no probs answer. It will fail and not saying that as I do this for a living.

[Chris79]

I was also confident in the standard front hook, then used it in anger for 9 years with no problems.
However I would not use the standard rear loop, square hitch with snatch strait off a quality pin or if you feel like spending some $$ one of the rear hitch hook things or the loop replacements like on the first page.

As far as snatch straps go, for standard 4wding I would not go over a standard 8T rated strap, they are designed to stretch for a smooth compliant recovery. Using an over rated strap could compromise this and add further strain to recovery points.

[mudski]

Check this thread out I started when I fitted two plates to my GU.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?14223-Fitting-GU-Recovery-plates.

[threedogs]

Chris79 and others, every man and his dog has and to a certain extent still use OE shipping and flat tow points for recoveries.
Its up to you to explain to the insurance Co. why you were snatching when the book says flat tow only. Don't think the Nissan patrol club in Vic
approves these as "recovery points" I could be wrong. If there are any members out there to confirm this, great. I know other clubs that will not
allow OE shipping points or any flat tow point to be used as a recovery point. That being the case, are not usually allowed to do driver awareness. This is also how bad habits get passed on, don't care if you buy one of mine
or one of the many copies. But you should have something that is rated and not just a hook welded to a plate, I for one would be refusing a recovery
and looking at an alternative way to get out. Obviously you haven't seen the damage one of these or other homemade plates can do.
I can only say join a club you may find it very interesting. Would also like to know if at all you have done a 4x4 driving course as I'm sure they wouldn't allow them either. The whole idea of this is safety, and better to recover with a rated point than something that could let go anytime.
this topic has been done to death many times, but if you want to use the OE Nissan Plate great but I wont be there. Don't take that the wrong way.
Silver has made some very valid points, pardon the pun. To clear things up I've only met one person on this Forum who helped with my NAD set up

[DX grunt]

Please don't expect me to help you with your standard front hook.

I'll lend you my Maxtrax and a shovel.

Take care out there.

Rossco

[macca86]

If your buying so called rated gear I'd also be asking to see the engineers report and testing that proves the claim a swl should be stamped on the product with manufactures id and after 12 months of purchase these products are no longer rated from a legal or insurance view I'd imagine if they're classed as lifting recovery points they need to be tested and tagged every 12 months. Happy to be wrong but just a thought

[threedogs]

Mine are rated to tow, others {COPIES} I've seen are rated to lift. I only rate mine to match the braked capacity of your 4x4.
Don't re call getting my towbar re tested every year.
Can we move on this is very old news, on a final point if the standard plate is so good why do people buy rated replacements?

[macca86]

How are your rated? What testing is carried out on them do you have a patent to stop copies etc in sure they are good gear just wanting to know how you get them rated etc. Your tow bar has a warranty after that it its up to you to check and maintain.

[threedogs]

Patent not worth the paper they write it on, Design copyright not worth it either, maybe if I'd spent $100K trying to protect them it would be different. been over 25 products copied.
As I said been done to death the testing procedure is here somewhere. And total agree with you that its up to me to check to bar. My recovery points are not made to last forever,{wish they did} but like all recovery equipment they need to be inspected as you would winch cables for kinks, straps for fraying, no difference if it looks suss turf it, no questions asked.
and that is all I have to say on this subject for now, I'm off to hospital.

[Greengu98]

i really must get me some good front points! the std one has worked thus far BUT when it goes it wil hurt

[Greengu98]

hey how much are the red ones up the top there?

[threedogs]

Greengu Sending PM

[Conradk]

I learn every day on this forum. Found the hook under the seat when I bought Attila and wondered where it belonged! If the HT bolts are still in place it goes on tonight!

[threedogs]

You are a bit far away, but don't use the factory flat point tow hook in anger it will snap and cause damage and god forbid injury, I could find out how much to post to Sth Africa. What year ,motor and bullbar have you got.

[Conradk]

Attila is a '99 4.5L with a nudgebar and integrated Warn winch. Model details I will dig around for (only had her for a month so still feeling my way around). Thanks for the offer to help; really appreciate it.

[threedogs]

Yours will have the larger radiator, not sure if you have two captive nuts under the chassis both sides up the front, if not. one bolted to the inside of chassis rail will keep you safe.
take it you're rhd over that way. would make no difference anyway .I'll go to PO today and get best price .

[Conradk]

Thanks for the guidance and help. Thsi forum has been amazing. Solved two other electrical problems this week on other threads; relatively simple problems that would otherwise cost me a packet using a dealer (few and far between here). Yes, we are also RHD and it is the one with the long radiator.
For what its worth, we bought Attila 2nd hand because we want to see how much we like the idea of upgrading our outdoor lifestyle (we previously had an Isuzu doublecab) before we go out and spent a packet on a new wagon. I plan to retire in about 5 years time and would like to tour Africa south of the equator (some of the most amazing mountains, deserts, swamps and jungles). In preparation we intend using Attila to learn about all aspects of 4x4 skills, safety and maintenance without the worry of damaging or wrecking a small fortune in the process. Once we are happy with our skills we can then upgrade to something newer.

[markp90]

Hy three dogs have sent a pm regarding some recovery points,

thanks
Mark

[thelawz]

I always understood the front chassis hook and rear loop to be rated for recovery as it states that in the owners manual. I am a bit dubious using it, but have used it in the past. I will replace with proper once to have piece of mind though.

[rottodiver]

28125

I found this.... Any thoughts
Scotty

[Clunk]

If was a nice easy tow out then yes I would and have done but I doubt I'd ever use them for a snatch recovery, not that I've had to do a snatch recovery yet anyway.

Don't stroke it, TAP it!!!!.....

[rottodiver]

I have had a gu patrol since 1998 and in my earlier days( young and dumb) I didn't know anywhere near as much as I "think" I do now and I used the front and rear many many many times and that is in deep mud and very soft sand so to be honest If that is all you had it would be fine although I do now errrr on the side of caution and use aftermarket tow points!
Scotty

[rottodiver]

Yeah, I thought it said Emergency Only - recall someone posting that up the other day. And it does say not to use other parts of the vehicle (like the chassis rail) for obvious reason. This doesn't account for a good quality tow bar which is attached to the chassis on at least 6 different points.

Whilst we'll never stop genuine accidents even if every man and his dog practiced safe recovery procedures, the best method (currently for the average buyer) is to use a good quality tow receiver hitch and rated shackle (4.5T) like this one:

28126

Even better is to have two recovery points on the front and rear and use a bridle/equaliser if the budget allows for it. I am a believer that recovery gear (of any description) is not stuff you "cheap" out on - how cheap snatch straps, winches, shackles, bridles, chains, etc, etc, could possibly make you feel safe, I have no idea. You reckon the blokes who do abseiling up and down cliffs sit around on Sunday afternoon after a 140m vertical climb and boast about how they picked up some cheap ropes, harnesses, and gates from eBay just recently?

Totally agree, but also something that is sometime forgotton about is the tow hitch itself, I blew a transfer case up in 1997 and was getting snatched out of a hole I got myself stuck in, as my mate went to snatch me his entire tow hitch came off his patrol and ended up less than 30 cm from another friend standing near my car. The welds rusted on his hitch and he never new.(As my last post says, was young and dumb)
Scott

[Clunk]

Totally agree, but also something that is sometime forgotton about is the tow hitch itself, I blew a transfer case up in 1997 and was getting snatched out of a hole I got myself stuck in, as my mate went to snatch me his entire tow hitch came off his patrol and ended up less than 30 cm from another friend standing near my car. The welds rusted on his hitch and he never new.(As my last post says, was young and dumb)
Scott

That will be another think that folks will forget to check

What you tapin at!!!!!????

[threedogs]

You'd probably be surprised how many tow bars are mounted
using bolts that are not zinc plated or rated.then the amount of times those bolts
get wet either by bog holes,puddles or mud even and salt water.
A decent pull during a recovery may see these bolts fail.
I did check them on my last 4x4 and replaced them all as the caryard even used coach bolts.
If you ever have a chance inspect them as part of your maintenance routine

[blahjohnnyd]

Hi, I picked up my Patrol in January and sheepishly have taken this long to look into upgrading my recovery points. Can anyone make a recommendation as to where I should go shopping in the Brisbane area for this stuff? Either that or can one of the sales reps on here send me a brochure for online shopping? Cheers

[outback]

Hi, I picked up my Patrol in January and sheepishly have taken this long to look into upgrading my recovery points. Can anyone make a recommendation as to where I should go shopping in the Brisbane area for this stuff? Either that or can one of the sales reps on here send me a brochure for online shopping? Cheers

Talk to threedogs about it.
See here
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?12616-Outback-Ideas-Recovery-points

[threedogs]

What are you after Mate, PM if you like

[nissannewby]

There seems to be a very grey area here. "Rated" recovery points seem to not exist and most will sold as a rated "tow" points. There is a big difference between the loads applied while towing and the loads applied when recovering/snatching.

[threedogs]

This is old ground now we just went through all this and the closest to getting a rating were Outback Ideas not the copies
I'm not going into it again, Read the thread in Archives please

[NP99]

We can settle this by making it mandatory that every 4wd has a swing boom fitted :)

[nissannewby]

Not going anywhere. Just keeping the buyer informed not trying to stir anything. Sharing info is what forums are about.

[threedogs]

Like I said old news now

[taslucas]

Like I said old news now

Same as the reoccuring 2" lift threads. Just do what I do John and ignore it.......
The questions are going to keep getting asked and the subject is going to be brought up often. You can't take it personally mate, people just want to discuss different subjects.

[BigRAWesty]

There seems to be a very grey area here. "Rated" recovery points seem to not exist and most will sold as a rated "tow" points. There is a big difference between the loads applied while towing and the loads applied when recovering/snatching.

Didn't we just put this issue to bed.. :confused:

Ow..
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?p=354169

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)