Spray Painting Tips and Tricks

[Bigrig]

Righto, I know I can make a call and get this information, but thought I'd post up here so it's all recorded on the forum for posterity ...

Soooo .... the lads rig is not far off paint. Questions as follows from someone who's NEVER done automotive spray painting (except from a can with a ball bearing in it!! lol).

Here goes:

1. I take it there is 3 coats applied - primer, enamel (not using 2pac), and clear coat?

2. Should I apply two coats of primer? If so, why and should it be etch primer? Why?

3. Should I lightly sand the primed finish with 140 grit to remove any small imperfections that come through the coat from the original surface and make it ready for the top coat? If not, why not?

4. When applying enamel coat, how many layers? I sort of understand the actual application process, but unsure whether it should have multiple coats.

5. What is the usual mix of thinners to enamel?

6. I take it the clear coat doesn't require thinners, but if so, what mix?

7. How many coats of clear?

So basically, it's a big "I've never done it before, want to have a lash, but don't want to stuff it up" bunch of questions.

Any and all assistance and advice greatly appreciated!

[sam697]

Typing cost....... $35 per hour......
Care factor........$55 per hour
Energy to do the typing.............. priceless

ROFLMFAO

How's that for a relationship :)

[sam697]

I guess now would be a bad time to tell you that my son is a spray painter ?????? :)

[patch697]

Typing cost....... $35 per hour......
Care factor........$55 per hour
Energy to do the typing.............. priceless

ROFLMFAO

How's that for a relationship :)


I guess now would be a bad time to tell you that my son is a spray painter ?????? :)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What she said,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ROFLMFAO


Why don't you just ring your new mate at 4x4Action "OR" Just get yourself a paintball gun.....

Either way if your doing the job, no one would be able to tell the difference...................... ROFLMFAO

P's'.... Feel free to delete all of the above as I know this was meant to be an informative thread & so far the only informative information that has been learned thus far is that your an ex graffiti artist.......

[Winnie]

I'd be interested in this too, a mate asked me to paint his Torana because he is too scared he will stuff up. What a fool to ask me!

[threedogs]

One mate says if you can pee you can paint, he can't pee very well
other mate who does resto's says it's all in the preperation, think I'll believe that one

[Bigrig]

I should have known better!! lol

So I'm etch priming the exposed steel - got it.

Spray putty for the first priming coat OR epoxy enamel primer?? How to mix?? I have no idea ...

Sand it back ...

Automotive acrylic for the top coat?? How to mix it?? No idea ...

Clear gloss for final coat?? How to mix it?? Still no idea ...

Thanks for the ... errr ... advice thus far!! lol

[sam697]

Thanks for the ... errr ... advice thus far!! lol


No problem, anytime :)

[threedogs]

Back to first mate, thin paint down, not too wet and sloopy, spray on test piece, keep consistant.
see peeing is like painting, better give him a ring to thank him

[taslucas]

Theres a trick to finding if the paint is thinned down enough. Mix it with your stirrer then lift the stirrer out and watch the paint run off. It should run in a continuous thin stream(for a second or two) then drip, not just drip. It's hard to explain but I reckon you'd be able to find it on the ewetoob. Ask the guy approximate amounts when you buy the paint. Better to have it on the thin side and do an extra coat. When thinner, it's easier to apply

Tap, crackle, pop

[patch697]

I do appreciate what it is your trying to do here Bigus but truly old mate, to answer your questions in the best way I can think of is this:

Surely there is someone up your way (could even be a good mate of the famous Bigrig perhaps???) who's a spray painter & would be willing to show you & guide you first hand???

You can ask all the questions you want on the subject but you will find that most ppl in the industry will have they're own way of doing things & so, so much of it is relied entirely on touch & sight, non of which can be explained or experienced on a forum post.

There are many on our wonderfully vast knowledge based forum with tones & tones of genuinely excellent advice but the truth to it is, if you truly want that end result then stand beside someone who knows & learn first hand.

Its the best way I promise you.

[Bigrig]

I do appreciate what it is your trying to do here Bigus but truly old mate, to answer your questions in the best way I can think of is this:

Surely there is someone up your way (could even be a good mate of the famous Bigrig perhaps???) who's a spray painter & would be willing to show you & guide you first hand???

You can ask all the questions you want on the subject but you will find that most ppl in the industry will have they're own way of doing things & so, so much of it is relied entirely on touch & sight, non of which can be explained or experienced on a forum post.

There are many on our wonderfully vast knowledge based forum with tones & tones of genuinely excellent advice but the truth to it is, if you truly want that end result then stand beside someone who knows & learn first hand.

Its the best way I promise you.

That probably is the best idea mate - thanks.

But alas, I'm still gunna have a lash!!! lmao

So, anyone ... anyone ... anyone??

[Sir Roofy]

theres a trick to finding if the paint is thinned down enough. Mix it with your stirrer then lift the stirrer out and watch the paint run off. It should run in a continuous thin stream(for a second or two) then drip, not just drip. It's hard to explain but i reckon you'd be able to find it on the ewetoob. Ask the guy approximate amounts when you buy the paint. Better to have it on the thin side and do an extra coat. When thinner, it's easier to apply

tap, crackle, pop

just as threedogs said just like having a pee just watch the drips though dont get them on your boots pmsl
practice on cardboard or tin and see how ya go get some old paint and try it
short even strokes or long strokes

[patch697]

That probably is the best idea mate - thanks.

But alas, I'm still gunna have a lash!!! lmao

So, anyone ... anyone ... anyone??

Ok seems your insistent to the point of annoyance....lol

Right we know from the build thread & the existence of this thread that you are soon looking at painting the new edition.

First things first: Preparation is first & foremost the biggest key to any good paint job. any shortcuts you take "WILL" come back to bight you sooner or later.

Its important to note at this point that you need to decide on what "TYPE" of pain your going to be using for your top/colour coat as this will determine what preparation you will need to moving forward with. Now how & what to choose????

There are a few things to consider when choosing the type of paint that will best suit your needs:

#1, Environment?.... the aria or space in which the product will be applied.

#2. The finished surface?..... A full metal respray or painting over a pre existing paint job whether it be part or full?

#3. Product durability?...... What product is best going to stand up to the vehicles application?


There are a few others that may need to be considered as well, budget for example. But answering the 3 questions listed above will go a long way in taking the first real step that needs to be taken, "to determine what paint is best for me?" Once we have established that, we can move one to the right type of preparation.

[04OFF]

Ha-ha, Scotty, im not a spray painter, and far from a expert (but have at least painted a whole car before), i was coming over on Sat to help with the fence ,but will be happy to talk you through what i would do with regard to painting ya car.

[NissanGQ4.2]

I was coming over on Sat to help with the fence ,but will be happy to talk you through what i would do with regard to painting ya car.

Anything to get out of doing the fence *L*

Scotty, just drive it down 2 Sydney next time you come down for work, I know a few suburbs not 2 far away from here where the kids will spray paint your car for free *LMAO*

[Ben-e-boy]

when you get the paint get a mixing bucket aswell it's like a measuring cup really if the paint is a 4 to 1 mix it has the lines marked on it.
I'm pretty sure that if you are going enamel the primer and everything has to be enamel and the same for acrylic etc

once you have primed it a few times its time for a guide coat then rub it back to find the high and low points.
I was taught when doing your top coat do the areas like the door sill, roof sills, edges of panels first the blend the rest of the panel/s in. If your first coat is too dusty it will orange peel and to thick obviously it will run.

my 2c happy to be corrected

[nissannewby]

Why dont you want to use 2pac? For solid colours its far easier to apply with a good finish and doesnt require a clear coat. With acrylic its all the prep work the painting is maybe only 10% of the job. If you dont do the prep you will have to start all over again. Also high quality paints like ppg etc make life easier too.

Im sure steve with all his expertise will be able to help you no worries at all. Make sure when spraying you keep the gun an even distance from the vehicle at all times to give a nice even coat.

[Bigrig]

Ha-ha, Scotty, im not a spray painter, and far from a expert (but have at least painted a whole car before), i was coming over on Sat to help with the fence ,but will be happy to talk you through what i would do with regard to painting ya car.

Top stuff ... on being here to build the fence I mean!!!! lol

Thanks mate - any tips greatly appreciated.

[Bigrig]

Why dont you want to use 2pac? For solid colours its far easier to apply with a good finish and doesnt require a clear coat. With acrylic its all the prep work the painting is maybe only 10% of the job. If you dont do the prep you will have to start all over again. Also high quality paints like ppg etc make life easier too.

Im sure steve with all his expertise will be able to help you no worries at all. Make sure when spraying you keep the gun an even distance from the vehicle at all times to give a nice even coat.

So 2pac is more "forgiving" as a final coat?? I'm gunna need all the forgiveness I can get!!! lol

[macca86]

Get someone else to do it the bro in law can come over and guide you with it if you want

[nissannewby]

Yeah 2 pac is more forgiving I did my GQ in 2pac and it came up alright.

[megatexture]

make sure you don’t clear coat on a humid day specially if your doing a metallic finish as it will turn more of a matt so a silver with clear will turn out like a matt grey .... I know :icon_bonk: once i worked that out came out a treat :smileyvault-cute-bi

[nissannewby]

I use to get that from my grandpa cos believe it or not my name is Mat Gray

[patch697]

2pak is at the more expensive end of the paint stick as far as product pricing goes but its benefits are huge in more ways then one & it is my choice in paints

[macca86]

I use to get that from my grandpa cos believe it or not my name is Mat Gray

we nicknamed the painter who was called matt. His nickname was low sheen

[Bigrig]

2pak is at the more expensive end of the paint stick as far as product pricing goes but its benefits are huge in more ways then one & it is my choice in paints

Okey dokey.

Let's just assume I'm going 2pac and getting a pro to paint the finish coat.

What prep do I need to prime? I'm going down the path of etch primer on the exposed steel, normal enamel primer all over, spray putty all over with fine sand to get it schmick on the finish, then another prime coat.

Am I on the right path??

And if so, with that level of prep, if I practiced a bit on scrap, you reckon I could pull off the 2pac coat myself??

He's decided jet black for the final colour!! Yep, it'll show up every ding and bit of dirt, but it's his truck ... and personally, I think it'll look insane with my wheels/tyres, polished front bar, and custom tray (which Macca, Benny, Dhuck and I are gunna knock up ... unless they were only offering ideas ... in which case, I'm gunna knock it up!! lol).

[macca86]

Your wife may get jealous you knocking up trays mate. Black that's tough good luck to him. Yes I can lend a hand once the tray has been designed and measured I can quote steel prices and cut it all on a bandsaw maybe

[Bigrig]

Your wife may get jealous you knocking up trays mate. Black that's tough good luck to him. Yes I can lend a hand once the tray has been designed and measured I can quote steel prices and cut it all on a bandsaw maybe

You're definitely my favourite out of three mate ... you know that, hey??? lmao

Thanks champion. Less concerned about the tray truth be told, as that's heavy steel which I can happily cut and weld (still want the help though!!!), but the paint job could sorta 'make or break' the truck.

Essentially, Jet Black cabin, polished alloy Bullbar, black King Rims and 33" Maxxis Bighorns, a black custom tube tray, with stainless checker plate flooring ... mouth watering stuff for a young fella ... and an old boy living vicariously through his kid!!! lol

It "should" look a million bucks ...

Than it's time for Benny's expertise to kick in and we start playing with the suspension setup to get that bad boy working hard ...

[Winnie]

Jet black cabin with all white bar work would look pretty trick...

[Bigrig]

Jet black cabin with all white bar work would look pretty trick...

Polished alloy front bar boss ... black RHS and tube on the rear bar, with stainless checker plate flooring .... sexy indeed!!!!

[nissannewby]

You will need a specific primer filler for the 2pac but the paint shop can help you there. A etch primer should be fine for the bare metal then use the correct filler primer for the 2pac once again paint shop will be the best for this product then top coat will come up schmick

[mick.]

Righto, I know I can make a call and get this information, but thought I'd post up here so it's all recorded on the forum for posterity ...

Soooo .... the lads rig is not far off paint. Questions as follows from someone who's NEVER done automotive spray painting (except from a can with a ball bearing in it!! lol).

Here goes:

1. I take it there is 3 coats applied - primer, enamel (not using 2pac), and clear coat?

2. Should I apply two coats of primer? If so, why and should it be etch primer? Why?

3. Should I lightly sand the primed finish with 140 grit to remove any small imperfections that come through the coat from the original surface and make it ready for the top coat? If not, why not?

4. When applying enamel coat, how many layers? I sort of understand the actual application process, but unsure whether it should have multiple coats.

5. What is the usual mix of thinners to enamel?

6. I take it the clear coat doesn't require thinners, but if so, what mix?

7. How many coats of clear?

So basically, it's a big "I've never done it before, want to have a lash, but don't want to stuff it up" bunch of questions.

Any and all assistance and advice greatly appreciated!I'll do my best to answer all this as clearly as possable but your questions are very open.

1. This depends on a few things. If there is bare metal everywhere you need an etch primer over the bare metal and 3 to 4 coats of 2 pack primer over the top. If there isn't a great deal of bare metal everywhere then it's perfectly fine just to prime over small rub thoughs as most 2 pack primers are self etching to bare metal anyway.

With the colour this depends on whether your painting the car in a solid colour, Clear over solid base (COSB), metallic or pearl (COB). If your just painting an old bomb in the back yard then painting it in a solid colour is fine. If your painting it in medium solid (MS) then 1 medium coat and one wet coat is fine. If your painting it in High solid (HS) or very high solid (VHS) then a tack coat and one wet coat is all that's needed. Any more then these recommendations will result in runs and solvent boil.

If your painting it in a COB or COSB then 3 to 5 coats of base colour and then a clear is required. Again as mentioned above for MS clear one medium coat and one wet coat and for HS or VHS clear one tack coat and one wet coat.

2. You need 3 to 4 coats because the primer is designed to fill small imperfections and when blocked down it helps level out paint and bog edges which aren't always noticeable to the naked eye but as soon as you put colour on them they stand out. You want to be able to rub this down without to many rub thoughs to whats under the primer. This can cause shrinkage at a later date which highlights the rub though at a later date.

3. The primer needs to be guide coated and to be sanded back with 400 wet with a block first all over. Once this is done it then needs to re guide coated and rubbed down with 800 wet all over but without a block this time. Also don't rub with your fingers on the flat surfaces or it will show up when you put colour over the top. There are dry rubbing options for rubbing primer but without the right safety gear and know how this will only end in disaster.lol

4. This was answered above. As for the COBs and COSBs (base colours) that can be between 3 to 5 coats depending on the coverage. Some reds can take 5 coats to cover and some other colours such as dark blues can take 3 coats.

5. All my answers have been for 2 pack baked enamel not air dry enamel. Don't get these confused.

2 pack paints vary a lot. Most base coats (COB & COSB) are about 60% paint to 40% reducer.

Medium solid colours and clears are usually 2 or 3 parts paint to 1 part hardener and 10 to 15% reducer. The HS and VHS are usually 4 parts paint to 1 part hardener and 0% to 10% reducer. These are only wild figures as every paint system is different and you need to follow the Technical data sheets to get this correct (TDS). There is no room for error and the thinning side of it depends on the temperatures, what speed hardeners and reducers you are using plus the size of the paint job at hand and the gun set ups your using.

6. This is answered above.

7. As mentioned above. MS is 1 medium coat and one wet coat. HS and VHS is one tack coat and one wet coat. Anymore then this can result in Solvent boil, runs, delamination etc. I wont go into details why as it will only confuse you more then I probably already have.

I can go into more detail if you like but that's putting it as simple as possible without trying to confuse you to much.lol

Cheers Mick.

[04OFF]

There ya go Scotty, and thats without you stuffing up all the prep work (LMFAO)

Scotty , you should ask Mick about "Ceramic Clears" also :gossip:

[mick.]

I resprayed my Patrol in Sikkins Ceramic clear early this year. It's great stuff which I used to use on Lexus when I worked for a Lexus repairer. We used to paint the car as usual and clear it with normal clear. Then once dry we would rub the car back with 1000 wet and flow coat it in Ceramic clear. That's the reason you see cars such as Lexus, Merc, BMW, Bentley always look like they have fresh paint because once ceramic clear is dry it doesn't scratch from being washed, polished etc.

The down side is you need to spray in a very clean environment (spray booth) and know how to apply paint to get it on nice or it runs easily and it needs denibing within 24 hours of being painted or it's to hard to denib so any bits of crap or runs stay there for good.lol

Ceramic clear isn't something you would use in the backyard and it's quite expensive too.

Cheers Mick.

[Spike]

sand any chips cracks and around any bog work with 240 grit, primer over parts you want primed then rub back with 400 grit, 400 any panels your going to repaint that do not have repairs on them (pretty much just want to get away the clear coat or "shiny-ness") the ratios should be printed on the back of the paint car. Use a mixing cup or you can purchase a mixing ruler that has ratios on them. Make sure your over spray is 50-50 so your first line you over lap the next line half way but be careful because runs are easily made especially with clear coat.

[daves]

Did you get it painted and if so how did you go,I havent been on the forum for a bit or I would have tried to help you out.

Hope it came out good if you did it and I also hope you didnt use air dry enamel prick of a paint to rework or do anything with really

[Bigrig]

Did you get it painted and if so how did you go,I havent been on the forum for a bit or I would have tried to help you out.

Hope it came out good if you did it and I also hope you didnt use air dry enamel prick of a paint to rework or do anything with really

Went ok mate - for an amateur ...

Paint is a 221 2Pac that we were advised to use, and once I got a grip on flow rate, gun pressure and hand movement, it didn't end up too bad (not a showroom job, but not bad for a first ever lash).

[daves]

way to go bigrig yeh its all about the prep and as you said the setup of the spraygun and thinning of the paint plays a part to,i give you points for having a go,i just did a swival hub kit on my gu which was a new experience to me being a spraypainter,glad its done,lucky for me i had a mechanic mate help out.

[Bigrig]

way to go bigrig yeh its all about the prep and as you said the setup of the spraygun and thinning of the paint plays a part to,i give you points for having a go,i just did a swival hub kit on my gu which was a new experience to me being a spraypainter,glad its done,lucky for me i had a mechanic mate help out.

The swivel hub bearing kit is something I'd rather do boss!! Done plenty now and like spray painting, you get somewhat better at it the more you do it apparently!! lmao

[threedogs]

So was my first comment to you correct,??
if you can pee you can paint?
A great product for diff coatings is called POR 15 ,this stuff is un real
your Auto paint shop will know of it, pricey as but best for its job IMO

[daves]

That must be why im good at drinking beer

[stevogq]

painted a couple of cars and one very usefull tip i learnt was to spray the putty on the car and get a can of black paint and roughly spray the car so when you sand it back you can see if you have high/low spots and touchup with the spray putty and sand back again and the more clear coats gives the impression of "deeper colour"

[mick.]

painted a couple of cars and one very usefull tip i learnt was to spray the putty on the car and get a can of black paint and roughly spray the car so when you sand it back you can see if you have high/low spots and touchup with the spray putty and sand back again and the more clear coats gives the impression of "deeper colour"This thread is based on 2 pack so there is no need for spray putty but I get what you mean.

The guide coat is a great idea though and used by all spray painters. Although most use guide coat powders or dies such as Purple Haze now. I personly use basecoat on a rag and soak the rag in reducer and smear that all over the job. That actually gets the guide coat in the scratches so if your going from 400 wet to 800 wet using this method you are garenteed to remove all your 400 scratch marks. With a guide coat out of a gun or spray can it usually just sits on top. Rubbing the guide coat off doesn't mean you have actually removed the scratch marks which is why dies and powders are used these days. Don't do this with acrylic though it will wipe it off. lol

threedogs if your comment is true "if you can pee you can paint" there must be a lot of guys out there with trade certificates who still cant pee on the own let alone backyarders or a lot of guys who have no idea what there looking at.:wink:

Cheers Mick.

[Rustyboner81]

True if you can piss you can paint. But it'll look like youve pissed all over it. I got out of painting a few years back now. 2k all the way.

[Timbo]

Righto, I know I can make a call and get this information, but thought I'd post up here so it's all recorded on the forum for posterity ...

Soooo .... the lads rig is not far off paint. Questions as follows from someone who's NEVER done automotive spray painting (except from a can with a ball bearing in it!! lol).

Here goes:

1. I take it there is 3 coats applied - primer, enamel (not using 2pac), and clear coat?

2. Should I apply two coats of primer? If so, why and should it be etch primer? Why?

3. Should I lightly sand the primed finish with 140 grit to remove any small imperfections that come through the coat from the original surface and make it ready for the top coat? If not, why not?

4. When applying enamel coat, how many layers? I sort of understand the actual application process, but unsure whether it should have multiple coats.

5. What is the usual mix of thinners to enamel?

6. I take it the clear coat doesn't require thinners, but if so, what mix?

7. How many coats of clear?

So basically, it's a big "I've never done it before, want to have a lash, but don't want to stuff it up" bunch of questions.

Any and all assistance and advice greatly appreciated!

I'll try and answer your questions for the sake of it. I don't think anyone has tried to yet.

1. Number of coats can depend obviously. In general, your pretty much right. With metal, I use an etch primer first to bite into the metal, then prime over it, either with a filler primer if there's light scratches or a surface primer if body is fine, then your paint plus clear if you need clear.

2. As above, for metal, I'd use an etch primer first so it bites in. Normal primer was hang onto etch primer easier than bare metal in most cases. Number of coats can depend on how thin your primer mix is. Might be 2:1, 3:1 etc. If it's thin, you could afford to apply a couple coats. If it's thick then one should suffice. Depends on if you have to use bog on the primer too. If your sanding the primer back, which you should be, then you want a bit of lee-way so you don't rub through the coat. Think of it as a buffer.

3. After priming the surface, you usually apply a guide coat which is usually a REALLY pissy black colour that you spray with a lot of Air and minimal Material. You set this on the gun. This helps to find high and low spots when rubbing back. 140 grit is pretty rough. I would think more like 400 or 800grit wet and dry paper would be reasonable. The rougher your paper is, the more marks will show in the paint.

4. Haven't sprayed much enamel, but from memory 3-4 coats is good. A simple rule I found was "tack coat, colour coat, glass coat". So first coat you dust on some colour to the primer.. some call it a haze coat. Then your second coat is going for colour. Basically lay colour down so you can't see the primer but not too much that it's running. Glass coat is obviously a finish look. For Clear, you can use the same theory but it's harder to see results unless your in a very well lit area like a booth.

5. The paint tin will have your mix ratios on it. It varies between manufacturers.

6. Same as above really. I can't see why you wouldn't use reducer with clear. All the paints and Clears I've dealt with used a thinner or reducer because it's too thick otherwise.

7. As per 4. Normally 2 coats is fine. You can apply the tack, colour, glass rule to the clear as well or just two decent coats if you know what you're doing.

If you're keen to do it, try a door first or a piece of sheet metal etc. Get comfortable with overlapping your spray line. There's many factors to painting that can make it hard and daunting, not gonna lie. I'm in no way a pro painter but I learned a lot over 2 years of doing signs. A lot of signs were much larger than a car too. The process is the same, it's all metal.

So grab a piece of sheet metal and try. If I was doing a car in a solid colour (not a metalic or pearl) I would break the car up into pieces. Take off all of the doors, guards and bonnet. Lay them all down on tressels flat. Much easier to spray. Then do whats left of the body starting at the roof.

Temperature is one of the biggest things to watch. If it's too cold, don't try. Too hot, don't try. Find the ample spray temp for the brand your using and do it at that temperature. Easier in a booth but you might have to wait for a nice sunny, wind free day if doing it at home.

[mick.]

I did a detailed write up earlier in the thread on 2 Pack which is the same as enamel. All enamels should be used with a hardener to get best results.

Timbo for future reference never put more then 2 to 3 as a last resort (not covered) coats of enamel on anything. It is to much paint and can run very easily plus there's a very good chance of solvent boil.

Cheers Mick.

[Rustyboner81]

Too many coats can result in crazing and solvent pop. Crazing shows up as fine cracks in the paint finish. Solvent pop shows up as pin holes. Both are caused buy paint film thickness. Popping more in enamels where the surface tacks off and the evapourating solvents pop through the tacked off film. Crazing is caused buy the paints film being to think and contracting as it cures.

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Tapatalk 2

[Aldrich08]

Well i think there nothing bigger tips then it that you just shake the spray bottle and then don't stop your hand when you are spraying. Because when you stop your hand on one place then it lead to the over paint on some places.