Drop boxes for 2" lift

[WogsRus]

Ok So i have a 2" lift installed and although caster is juts ok, i was wondering if anyone is using drop boxes, like zordoes, to give them more caster on a 2' lift which in turn gives more flex out of the front.

Also, for all those who are doing a small lift, the front stock swaybar links can be utilised by making up a spacer to drop the link back down, I used some rod i had at home, machined up about 20mm long and hay presto, works a charm. You need to compress the bushes to get the nut on with but works just fine.

[Ben-e-boy]

how does more castor give you more flex.???

[WogsRus]

Not castor, you get more flex by lowering the pivot point of the front arms, thus allowing more flex. Well at least that is the theory.

[MudRunnerTD]

Hi Mate,

you will find that running a 2 inch lift you will be no where near the limitations of the pivot point and your limitation will be the sway bar and the length of the front shocks.

Fitting drop boxes is required primarily for Caster Correction and it would be argued by most that NO Caster correction is required on a 2 inch lift. Fitting Drop Boxes will cause an over correction and massive oversteer and really vague response i reckon.

At the end of the day mate there is no "Quick Fix" Your limitations are your 2 inch lift. Full Stop. All good for most and will get the job done but when chasing the next level it becomes "All In"

Hope that makes sense?

Cheers MR

[WogsRus]

Thanks mate

The front shocks are matched to give maximum front travel, Extended Length 21.310 in. Collapsed Length 12.550 in. so should be just nice, the front sway bars are currently mounted at 5 degrees down from horizontal and give an extra 10cm of travel VS horizontal mounting.

I did experiment on the weekend, and found if i drop the pivot down 30mm, the over all travel increased 180mm with sway bars in and so forth.

[MudRunnerTD]

Thanks mate

The front shocks are matched to give maximum front travel, Extended Length 21.310 in. Collapsed Length 12.550 in. so should be just nice, the front sway bars are currently mounted at 5 degrees down from horizontal and give an extra 10cm of travel VS horizontal mounting.

I did experiment on the weekend, and found if i drop the pivot down 30mm, the over all travel increased 180mm with sway bars in and so forth.

hmmm? but based on the length of your shock you have a total available travel on the shock of 223mm only so to have an increase of 180mm are you saying that you only have 43mm of travel now?


21.31in (541mm) Extended length
12.55in (318mm) compressed length
8.76in (223mm) Total Available Travel

[Ben-e-boy]

Not castor, you get more flex by lowering the pivot point of the front arms, thus allowing more flex. Well at least that is the theory.

I understand that but you did say that more castor and therefor more flex.

On a patrol the big limiting factor is the distance between the radius arm mounts on the diff. On a patrol it is 230mm between mounts. An 80 series flexes better because they are 180mm, apart and a landrover is even better still and 150mm (from memory) The closer they are together the more the bushes are allowed to move. from this the roll resistance is less and handling is comprimised and that why a superflex arm only has 1 superflex arm not 2.

if you want flex from a 2 inch lift you need big shocks. if you want to go really big you need to sit down and engineer a solution to get everything right ie anti-sqat and anti dive geometries, instant centre etc. and if you are going that far I would just double triangulate the rear and a 3 link + panhard front

[WogsRus]

Not castor direct sorry.

The shocks i have are 2.75" extra over stock, when i measured my stock shocks, they only have 145mm of travel. GU8 that is. The measurement i am talking about extra travel is based on taking out the stock shocks and seeing what i can get away with in terms of travel and the stock mounting points and sway bars. Sorry should clarify the travel was split left right, so 40mm up on one side 40mm down on the other, ie crossed axle, i don't know how to explain it all but i know it works. LOL.

[MudRunnerTD]

The real problem with the theory is that your spring length is all wrong. Regardless of the Mathematics of your Flex you are governed by the Drivability of your car. Installing Drop Boxes into a car that is sitting on a 2" Spring will drop the back of the Radius arm below horizontal and create a massive over correction problem and the thing will steer like a Boat and put a heap of weight on your steering box due to the extra power needed to steer as a result.

It is not all about the flex, The thing needs to steer too.

If your hell bent on getting flex then you have to go to at least a 3inch spring or at best have some small compact Drop boxes custom made but i think your playing with fire.

Go a longer spring and then get into it mate. If your worried about staying legal then you cant fit drop boxes anyway??

Here is my GIUV running a 3" Old Man Emu lift with Drop Boxes. No extra length shocks installed. Just out of the box OME Comp Spec. Note i have not refitted the front sway bar but have installed the rear sway bar only. The car is sitting on 285/75/R16s

http://nissanpatrol.com.au/images/GU%20IV/IMG_0603.jpg

Just the back fitted

http://nissanpatrol.com.au/images/GU%20IV/IMG_0611.jpg

Front done with Drop Boxes

http://nissanpatrol.com.au/images/GU%20IV/IMG_0613.jpg

Sits great with a Loaded Trailer and Loaded car for Touring

http://nissanpatrol.com.au/images/GU%20IV/62125_436108629925_544284925_5373034_6153796_n.jpg ?t=1287581776

And the Front works really really well!

http://nissanpatrol.com.au/images/GU%20IV/DSC_5056_2.jpg?t=1293705352

http://nissanpatrol.com.au/images/GU%20IV/DSC_5054_2.jpg?t=1293705291

http://nissanpatrol.com.au/images/GU%20IV/DSC_5048_2.jpg?t=1293704875

Got to be happy with that!

[WogsRus]

Thanks for the info, i guess we will see how it all works in real life and go from there.

ta

[nissannewby]

Drop boxes wont actually allow any more flex. You will still be limited by your shocks as its been stated.

[Robo]

Sorry to chime in .
for
NSW compliance for 4".
Drop boxes are the preferred option of the engineer I'm talking to at the moment for 4" lift on sons Maverick.
He wont look at caster plates as, "his words" they flex to much.

So it sound like it all depends where you live I guess what"s legal at the moment ! .
But fully agree boxes are not the answer for 2" lift.
Your steering would become dangerous.
Possibly not accepted by your insurance company as a result if boxes were fitted with only 50mm lift.
or simply denied as not engineered or what ever reason they can come up with if you had a spill.
Cheers

[Ben-e-boy]

Sorry to chime in .
for
NSW compliance for 4".
Drop boxes are the preferred option of the engineer I'm talking to at the moment for 4" lift on sons Maverick.
He wont look at caster plates as, "his words" they flex to much.



So it sound like it all depends where you live I guess what"s legal at the moment ! .
But fully agree boxes are not the answer for 2" lift.
Your steering would become dangerous.
Possibly not accepted by your insurance company as a result if boxes were fitted with only 50mm lift.
or simply denied as not engineered or what ever reason they can come up with if you had a spill.
Cheers

actually robo castor correction dosnt flex. its actually pretty woeful, A land cruiser with stock leaf springs will flex better in the front than a castor corrected patrol any day of the week.

[MudRunnerTD]

actually robo castor correction dosnt flex. its actually pretty woeful, A land cruiser with stock leaf springs will flex better in the front than a castor corrected patrol any day of the week.

Hey Ben, When i read Robo's post i read it as the Engineer didnt like plate because they flex at the mount too much (flex in the plates) and are not as solid as the Drop Boxes. Agreed they contribute nothing to the Suspension Flex but likely create a little unwanted Steering flex. Thats my assumption of the Engineers opinion anyway.

[Ben-e-boy]

Hey Ben, When i read Robo's post i read it as the Engineer didnt like plate because they flex at the mount too much (flex in the plates) and are not as solid as the Drop Boxes. Agreed they contribute nothing to the Suspension Flex but likely create a little unwanted Steering flex. Thats my assumption of the Engineers opinion anyway.

your probably right MR

[Robo]

your probably right MR

Yes, sorry if I wasn't clear enough first time round.
the caster correction plates themselves bend /flex sideways, allowing diff to move around.
my understanding of what the engineer meant.
Cheers fellers.

[benno77gu]

hi mate could you please post a photo of your sway bar spacer thanks

[WogsRus]

Will do but a but dark now...

[Robo]

To throw a spanner in the works.
Not having a shot, no offence meant. just passing info on.
Its not a set in cement rule. 2" and under don't need caster correction.
Wife's Mav with 2" lift had to have correction as alignment print out showed 3 deg out.
And this was confirmed/suggested to me by a ex nissan mechanic that not all chassie are the same.
I had heard this before, but thought could have been joint wear n tear also having and affect.
But Every single joint inc bearings on front end of wife's Mav have all been replaced trying to correct steering problem.
rule of thumb is an example and a wheel alignment, will tell you more.
That said make sure you ask for a print out with all info including caster info before the alignment is booked in.
I've struck 3 shops not offering this in the last 18 mths," printer not working x2, or info not on system as its not adjustable anyway".
more like not wanting to show you what they have of have not done!.
cheers.

[Matt 3ltr]

Hey mudrunner TD what brand of drop boxes did you use? Are they 3inch drop boxes or 4/5 inch boxes?