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View Full Version : GU 99 2.8lt TD suspected blown head gasket



Jamesandlizk
16th August 2012, 10:04 AM
Can anyone help.
I think I have blown a head gasket.
I recently purchased my 99 gu and since I bought it, it blows smoke on start up only.
I doesn't use oil at all.
Took it for a drive to the Nango National Park and since then it has been using water.
Can anyone tell me (I'm a first time diesel owner and female) if I should be able to take off the radiator cap whilst the car is running.
In all of my other cars (all petrol) you are able to start the engine and remove the radiator cap without water spewing everywhere.
Is it the same in diesel engines? Does this mean I have a blown gasket?

Please no abbreviations as I am sure I won't know what they mean, sorry to be painful.
Thanks for any help you can offer.

Cheers,
Liz

Petit caillou
16th August 2012, 10:15 PM
Hi Liz,

Look if you have bubbles in the expansion tank ?
do you have the heater in the cabin ?
do your GU has dificulties to start the morning?

Regards
Petit caillou.

Jamesandlizk
17th August 2012, 07:43 PM
Hi Liz,

Look if you have bubbles in the expansion tank ?
do you have the heater in the cabin ?
do your GU has dificulties to start the morning?

Regards
Petit caillou.

I have no heater in the cabin, never understood why as the air con works great.
No real problem starting it in the morning.
Got me stumped, was driving it today and lost power with water spewing out of the overflow bottle. The roadside assist guy tested the radiator to see if there was any trace of diesel but there wasn't so he said prob not a head gasket.
Got it towed home and the engine light is on and it's running like a pig, like it's running on 3 cylinders instead of 6. Got me f$$$ed.
Mrs is very pregnant and just spent the last of our dollars on this car, any tips would be great.

97_gq_lwb
17th August 2012, 07:47 PM
They do crack heads and even bores.
But i would do some thorough testing before removing it .
compression test cooling system pressure test etc

Jamesandlizk
17th August 2012, 07:55 PM
They do crack heads and even bores.
But i would do some thorough testing before removing it .
compression test cooling system pressure test etc

Thank for the advice, any idea what they will run me?

threedogs
17th August 2012, 07:59 PM
Is there white goo on dip stick???
Wouldn't start thinking big bucks yet


Could be any number of things, water pump, radiator, even loose belt maybe

Jamesandlizk
17th August 2012, 08:12 PM
Haven't checked since it only happened a few hours ago and it's dark out, just wondering if there is when I check tomorrow what are your thoughts on what it is?

MC97GQ
17th August 2012, 09:06 PM
James and Liz,

I think your best bet is to take it to a radiator/ cooling system specialist ie: Natrad. It could be something as simple as a dodgy radiator cap, buggered thermostat or it could be a head gasket, cracked head etc.

You will get a multitude of opinions here from your description, but unless you take it to someone who does this stuff all the time you could spend big dollars chasing this problem. But always remember to get a second opinion, especially if they are talking big dollars for repairs.

I hope it all goes well and good luck with your pending arrival.

Mark

Petit caillou
17th August 2012, 09:29 PM
Hi James and Liz

I'm pretty okay with MC97GQ.

- When the engine is running you bubbles in the expansion tank?
- The plug is pressurized to about 1 bar, it may be defective.
- Is the temperature gauge rises?
- The calorstat may be faulty or the water pump, ...
- The return hose coolant is it hard or soft ?

regards
Petit caillou.

Jamesandlizk
17th August 2012, 09:35 PM
Hi James and Liz

I'm pretty okay with MC97GQ.

- When the engine is running you bubbles in the expansion tank?
- The plug is pressurized to about 1 bar, it may be defective.
- Is the temperature gauge rises?
- The calorstat may be faulty or the water pump, ...
- The return hose coolant is it hard or soft ?

regards
Petit caillou.

No bubbles, the temperature gauge was at half way a second before the water started coming outta the thing but as soon as I lost power and it started dumping water the gauge went all the way up, once I got it home the gauge had gone back down so I am assuming that it's working.
The hose is soft not hard and brittle no cracks it's all holding water.MC97GQ thanks for the advice mate and also on your good wishes. :)
Let's hope we can figure this out so I can at least drive her to hospital!

Petit caillou
17th August 2012, 09:47 PM
James and Liz and....

I think the radiator cap is out, or the water pump is out, or the calorstat is out. your radiator cap must have a calibration to 0.9 bar, is that this is the case?
The system is pressurized, so when there is an increase in temperature and thus pressure the coolant will go in the expension, when the pressure drops then it is returned to the suction, from where the coolant is it out? the cap or vessel expension?
Regards
Petit caillou.

Jamesandlizk
17th August 2012, 10:11 PM
James and Liz and....

I think the radiator cap is out, or the water pump is out, or the calorstat is out. your radiator cap must have a calibration to 0.9 bar, is that this is the case?
The system is pressurized, so when there is an increase in temperature and thus pressure the coolant will go in the expension, when the pressure drops then it is returned to the suction, from where the coolant is it out? the cap or vessel expension?
Regards
Petit caillou.

The coolant was down about 100ml prior to me driving today, which I topped up before we started driving.
The main problem/worry I have now is that it's running like it only has 3 cylinders, which makes me think cracked head. Not to mention the check engine light is on.
I will have the cooling system etc tested but until I do I'm just trying to run through the possibilities so I can get a picture of what I will be looking at cost wise as well as time frame of having it off the road with a pregnant wife and 3 little ones.

Jamesandlizk
17th August 2012, 10:16 PM
The other thing that has me perplexed is that the roadside assistance guy checked the radiator for any trace of diesel and there was no trace.
Maybe a crack between cylinders?
Got me scratching my head.

Petit caillou
17th August 2012, 10:18 PM
The guy from the assitance should not know much.
I do not know the price in Australia. France to change the head it takes envion 2.840 AUD with labor.
I hope I helped you

Regards
Pierre.

nissannewby
17th August 2012, 10:33 PM
If it was cracked between cylinders you would get some kind of mixing of water in oil. Also if its a cracked liner at cold start you may get some water out the exhaust pipe and also if the leak gets bad could lead to hydraulic lock. You need the correct tester to test for diesel in a radiator of one cos the gases that are exhausted from a diesel are different to that of a petrol. How hot did it get when the temp come up? It could have just gone into a limp mode (not sure if these have it) when the coolant temp got hot. It may just need to be reset and off you go.
Im also with MC97GQ have the cooling system properly tested and go from there.

Generally your water pump will have a "tell tale" small hole on the lower side of and when water comes from here its due for replacement.

The 2.8's are known for cracking/warping heads but as others have said get the cooling system tested first.

bazzad
17th August 2012, 10:48 PM
Hi guys
here is what i would do
Start with a cold engine, check the oil level to make sure it is not overfull and the dipstick has no white emulsion on it.
Remove the radiator cap and check the coolant level is ok. start the engine with the cap off and let it idle, if your head has warped or the gasket has blown you should get bubbles consistantly coming up through the raditor. if it is ok let it warm up. if as it gets hot the water starts to sudenly overflow out of the radiator it may be a sticking thermostat. They should open progressivly and not cause sudden spurts of hot water.
The running on 3 cylinders is a worry, The fact you have a check engine light on says it may be a faulty injector or electrical problem with one of them.
What engine is it? Does it have a crank angle sensor that is not working? If the electrics seem to be working an you can clear the fault light than
take the oil filler cap off while the engine is going and check it for excessive puffing of air coming out of it. that could indicate a hole in a piston or a valve sealing fault. You will then need to get a compression test done to locate which cylinder is at fault but it is not a simple fix if that is the case.
Hope this helps but really it sounds like you need a trip to a garage.
bazzad

Petit caillou
17th August 2012, 10:54 PM
James and Liz,

I have perhaps not read but how do you know that you turn on 3 cylinders? big engine vibration?

Is your coolant is old? I also think the calorstat does not work correctly

regards
Petit caillou.

Jamesandlizk
17th August 2012, 10:58 PM
It's a 2.8lt td 99 GU.
The water spews out of it straight away, would a thermostat problem cause that?.

Jamesandlizk
17th August 2012, 10:59 PM
It shakes and splutters when you kick it over is my indication that it's not firing on all cylinders

nissannewby
17th August 2012, 11:01 PM
Does it come good as it warms up?

Jamesandlizk
17th August 2012, 11:02 PM
No it doesn't unfortunately

Petit caillou
17th August 2012, 11:03 PM
how many kilometers is this engine?

bazzad
17th August 2012, 11:05 PM
Generally no. Sounding more like a head gasket or cracked head.

nissannewby
17th August 2012, 11:05 PM
It does sound like you may have lost compression on at least one cylinder. This new info changes it a little. I would go and get a cylinder compression check done first then go from there.

Jamesandlizk
17th August 2012, 11:06 PM
It's 333k 99 model all country Km's....I know its due for something to go by the age if the vehicle, but it couldn't have happened at a worse time!

Jamesandlizk
17th August 2012, 11:09 PM
All I can see is $$$$$ and more $$$$ very disheartening.

Jamesandlizk
17th August 2012, 11:09 PM
Thanks for all the advice guys very much appreciated.

Petit caillou
17th August 2012, 11:11 PM
It does sound like you may have lost compression on at least one cylinder. This new info changes it a little. I would go and get a cylinder compression check done first then go from there.


+1

regards
Petit caillou.

Jamesandlizk
17th August 2012, 11:13 PM
Nissannewby, any idea what the compression test will run me?

nissannewby
17th August 2012, 11:15 PM
I wouldnt expect to pay anymore than $200 for someone else to do it.

Petit caillou
17th August 2012, 11:18 PM
do you have heavy smoke ?

Jamesandlizk
17th August 2012, 11:28 PM
No, no heavy smoke.

Petit caillou
17th August 2012, 11:31 PM
when you put your radiator cap you bubbles in the expansion tank?

Jamesandlizk
17th August 2012, 11:32 PM
No mate no bubbles

Jamesandlizk
17th August 2012, 11:35 PM
Nissannewby, is it common for there to be a heap of pressure in the water system? Should I be able to start the engine with the cap off without water spewing out of it?

Petit caillou
17th August 2012, 11:35 PM
It's a 2.8lt td 99 GU.
The water spews out of it straight away, would a thermostat problem cause that?.

Where is the coolant out?

Jamesandlizk
17th August 2012, 11:36 PM
The radiator cap when it's off not the overflow

Petit caillou
17th August 2012, 11:37 PM
you have pictures of the joke ?

Jamesandlizk
17th August 2012, 11:38 PM
???? Sorry mate don't understand, pic of what?

Petit caillou
17th August 2012, 11:43 PM
I do not understand why the coolant is ejected by the plug and not the jar expansion.

Jamesandlizk
18th August 2012, 12:03 AM
Sorry mate if I didn't make it clear before.
When removing the cap to check for bubbles in the radiator water spews out. Does that make sense?

Petit caillou
18th August 2012, 12:17 AM
Ok james,

this indicates that the compression of the engine passes through the cooling liquid, so that either the gasket is perforated between the compression chamber and the cooling system, or the cylinder head is cracked between the chamber and the cooling system, in putting the cap on the radiator (screwed) and if it is stopped at 0.9bar you should have bubbles in your expansion tank, if this is not the case, is that your cap is not good in your tank you must have expension coolant between minimum and maximum, and the cap of the expansion to three tubes (one that comes from the radiator), (one that goes into the coolant in the vase) (and who goes to the outside, the overflow). Is this all correct?

regards
Petit caillou.

Jamesandlizk
18th August 2012, 12:52 AM
Sorry are you saying I should have 2 tanks, an overflow and an expansion chamber? Where are they located? Is the overflow located above the expansion chamber?
I don't quite understand.

Petit caillou
18th August 2012, 01:20 AM
No James,

only one tank (on the right on the picture) with three tubes (one that comes from the radiator), (one that goes into the coolant in the tank) (and who goes to the outside, the overflow). Is this all correct?

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/4393/rd28tengine.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/268/rd28tengine.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

regards
Petit caillou.

Jamesandlizk
18th August 2012, 01:21 AM
Yes this is correct

Jamesandlizk
18th August 2012, 01:24 AM
Sorry didnt understand you were saying the overflow from the expansion tank.
My expansion tank is not see through so i cant see any bubbles inside

Petit caillou
18th August 2012, 01:27 AM
can you put a picture ?

nissannewby
18th August 2012, 02:11 AM
Nissannewby, is it common for there to be a heap of pressure in the water system? Should I be able to start the engine with the cap off without water spewing out of it?

Yes you should be able to start it without water spewing out. By what you have described and the way its happening it does sound compression related. If tested and comes back at spec thn you can go down the cooling system path. If its cold and it pushes it out at soon as you start the engine then I dont think it would be the thermostat as its generally closed when cold.

Jamesandlizk
22nd August 2012, 03:54 PM
Hi guys,
Just wanted to let you know that I had it tested and it is a blown head gasket. Possible head.
Just wanted to ask a couple of questions.
Is the head made of cast iron? The bloke told me that these cannot be welded and machined but instead need to be replaced with a brand new head (he wants to charge me $3500 to do it inc parts excluding incedentles ie oil, filters belts hoses.)
But recomended I get the engine full reco at $6k(using my own engine).
Any advice, my mrs is 6weeks from having our 4th kid and I just sunk the last of my $$$ into this car which has now died.
cheers

Outrage
22nd August 2012, 04:27 PM
Regarding the full engine reco, different car for me (was my falcon) but mechanic (trustworthy) said so many cars at that age and newer really need a full reco and not just a head, some cars can get away with it (not sure where the 2.8 stands). Said in the older engines the bottom ends could stand up to a new head quite well (think he meant pre 90's). My falcon (although 96 model) was one of the ones that's known to get away with it so he just done the head, ended up I was one of the unlucky ones though and the new tolorences with the new head was too much for the old bottom end. Ended up needing a full reco bottom end and replaced internals of the top end.

After going to pick the falcon up after the head work and in the mechanics driveway when he finished his test drive it starts blowing smoke (a lot of it) he was very embarrassed. Admitted if it was an off the street customer and not someone he knew, he would have straight up said, full reco at the start to eliminate the risk. (Don't worry he scrapped all labour charges for the initial head work, as said, trustworthy/honest)

So not surprised your mechanic recommends a full reco.

97_gq_lwb
22nd August 2012, 04:37 PM
It is an alloy head.
I have had alloy heads welded before on petrol engines motorbikes etc and never had a problem.
Though being a diesel 2.8 it may have something to do with the heat and compression related to it i really don't know why they don't weld them.
Try calling advance cylinder head dynamics at penrith they have done repairs for me in the past at reasonable prices.
Also you can buy brand new bare heads for under $1000 and shop around for prices on the job they can vary quite a bit and it may pay for you to try a local cylinder head specialist they can normally supply heads and vrs kits at good prices as well.

Jamesandlizk
22nd August 2012, 05:10 PM
It is an alloy head.
I have had alloy heads welded before on petrol engines motorbikes etc and never had a problem.
Though being a diesel 2.8 it may have something to do with the heat and compression related to it i really don't know why they don't weld them.
Try calling advance cylinder head dynamics at penrith they have done repairs for me in the past at reasonable prices.
Also you can buy brand new bare heads for under $1000 and shop around for prices on the job they can vary quite a bit and it may pay for you to try a local cylinder head specialist they can normally supply heads and vrs kits at good prices as well.

Hi mate thanks fr that I'll give them a call tomorrow and try and get a price.
On the bare heads Nader $1000 my mrs has been looking around but hasn't been able to come up with anything for less then $1100, any idea where to pick one up on the cheap?
the stress is starting to get to the mrs about not having enough room for all the kids when #4 arrives in a few weeks.

97_gq_lwb
22nd August 2012, 05:36 PM
Just type (rd28 head) into ebay

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Nissan-RD28-Brand-New-BARE-cylinder-head-patrol-/170735856727?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27c0a66c57

And try your local engine reconditioner or head machinists they have suppliers.

Usually cost me about $330 for a service wich includes crack test machining and valves reseated and guides installed etc.

Petit caillou
22nd August 2012, 05:59 PM
Hi,

Is the head cracked? and if so where?
normally between 5th and 6th cylinder
if the head is pierced, then replace with a new one!
if the head is cracked, aluminum welding, surfacing and pressure test (price unknown)
Check and clean the surface of the engine block (tolerance)
Measure piston protrusion
Install a cylinder head gasket according to the piston protrusion
Change spi join the camshaft.
Check the water pump, the calorstat
Cleaning the cooling

Regards
Petit caillou.

TUCK
23rd August 2012, 05:39 AM
If its a keeper go the full reco, is its peed you off and you want to sell it

Jamesandlizk
23rd August 2012, 10:07 AM
Tuck,
It has peed me off t Bly cause I bought it about 3 weeks ago, and the mrs is about to give birth to our 4th baby.
It's a great car it drives like a dream.
If I wanna see my next birthday, I probably shouldn't sell it my mrs would kill me!

Jamesandlizk
23rd August 2012, 10:08 AM
Tuck,
It has peed me off t Bly cause I bought it about 3 weeks ago, and the mrs is about to give birth to our 4th baby.
It's a great car it drives like a dream.
If I wanna see my next birthday, I probably shouldn't sell it my mrs would kill me!

Sorry it has peed me off "BUT ONLY BECAUSE"
I bought it about 3 weeks ago, and the mrs is about to give birth to our 4th baby.
It's a great car it drives like a dream.
If I wanna see my next birthday, I probably shouldn't sell it my mrs would kill me!

Petit caillou
23rd August 2012, 01:59 PM
Hi James,

I hope that my explanations have helped you.

regards
Petit caillou.